Contending with USF infantry as Ostheer

I'm having a lot of succes with double sniper behind and a line of 2 MG's. On maps like Langreskaya, this is working really good.

I've noticed heavier Pgren usage against Rifle Company and flamers lately. Its quite effective. Go lighter on grens (sometimes I don't even see them) and opt for Pgrens over time. Really dishes the pain on flamer rifles.

Nobody said anything about nerfing riflemen. In fact, I don't want any nerfs for them. I just want grenadiers stop sucking. That's all, actualy.

Well if it goes thet way pershing need to stop sucking
Jakson too sherman is some jhow ok
Rangers suck for there cost hmm
If we want to commper greens to rifelman then the armore need to be the same too ...

I've noticed heavier Pgren usage against Rifle Company and flamers lately. Its quite effective. Go lighter on grens (sometimes I don't even see them) and opt for Pgrens over time. Really dishes the pain on flamer rifles.

I understand that in your example pgrens are used as an AI unit, so no upgrade. And as AT solution? Double pak 40 maybe? It may work on small / narrow maps. But on maps that have alot of space for flanking.... pak 40 is not a verry bright choice, it can be outrunned quickly by infantry and destroyed.
Against USF a sniper based strategy as Kreatiir said may work but it's also extremely risky. Losing the sniper/s will mostly result in a loss.

From what I saw here, I would rather try the 3mgs build while skipping T1....

If you can vet up your pgrens, they will win vs riflemen. If you can make it to schwerze as OKW, you can get double obersoldaten with stg44, they win vs any flamer riflemen squad.

Personally in a 2v2 situation, I like to go MG sniper, gren MG sniper, it has alot of disadvantages, and I use the encirclement commander which is quiet meh, but the big advantage with the double sniper encirclement commander is the ability to sprint your snipers, one thing that I like to do is

- Attack move, typically ending in two models down
- Sprint back for about 3-5 seconds (the ability one goes for 5 seconds)
- attack move again leading to another two models down
- retreating or continuing the fight depend how it's going

after this I rush tier 2 and get a pak or either PGs depends on how the battle is going.

This works well against Brits and USF due to there lower squad count, Soviets not so much due to scout cars and 6 man squads.

With Brits you get to be wary of vet one vickers due to the fact that they have the same range as your sniper when in a building, which in my opinion is a tad bullpudding

This isn't the best strategy but for me it works against USF

In practice wait for the next patch.

I love how we're always hopeful that 'next patch' will solve the issues with the game, only to have our hopes shat on by Relic

i am talking about early game ...
4 greens can do the job realy great who wins long range ?
if rifles will try to figt long range they will lose
If they come close and you have 4 greens shooting at the same rifels they wont survive until geting closer

Then you get 222 thet conters m20 then flame truck thet gets vet 3 and rapes

Get ur op armore and gg ...

You are talking bullshit.How can grenspam beat rifles?Ask anybody .Its a simple way to commit suicide.Yes -rifles beat grens at all ranges,only small window of oppurtunity is when u have lmg gerns.But once rifles get BAR and vet 2-3 again disadvantaged.If 1919 or flamers u can't fight rifles with grens.

I've noticed heavier Pgren usage against Rifle Company and flamers lately. Its quite effective. Go lighter on grens (sometimes I don't even see them) and opt for Pgrens over time. Really dishes the pain on flamer rifles.

This is because -
1.Pzgrens can actually keep up in vet bonuses with rifles.
2.Flamer rifles sacrifice long range LMG power,and often try to close distance to use their flame-this charging phase is when defending pzgrens can cause heavy dmg.
3.Grenadiers are bollocks.

First off, Grens are not useless (and anyone saying they are need to l2p and gtfo of this thread).

My usual build order vs Brits / Americans is either:

MG, Sniper, Gren, Gren, Sniper, Gren
MG, Gren, Sniper, Gren, Gren

Snipers do require lots of micro and looking after but they bleed both those factions very hard. Imo USF doesn't really have any decent sniper counters. Always screen your sniper with Grens and keep enough muni for a faust or two, even if it means delaying LMG upgrades. Placing early tellers as well and keeping your sniper near these will easily deal with an m20. Most players will get tunnel vision when they see a sniper and try to kill it, so its easy to take advantage of this.

Regarding Bren carriers, without a flamer they are not very dangerous. If you see one its worth teching fairly fast to T2 and getting a 222 down (will lock down Wasp very easy and provide decent sight for snipers). If they Brit player builds his own sniper, just wait for a counter snipe opportunity. Always have the sniper in cover and screen with Grens. Let his sniper try to shoot your Grens and catch him this way. Its a game of patience but will pay off in the end.

Otherwise, rifle grenades are pretty potent, especially vs people who don't have great micro. Sometimes a preemptive rifle grenade will work wonders. If you a squad approaching cover, fire it so that it lands just as they get there. Always keep units together, never sent anything alone (unless a pio squad to cap, make sure to retreat them fast if anything more than a RE appears). Try to stick with your team mate early on as well (map depending). Makes it very hard for "blobs" of infantry to get past several mg's with infantry screening.

If you are having problems with them smoking mg's, a PzGren with a cheeky nade in the smoke works wonders as they advance through it.

Teching after T2 can go one of 2 ways depending on how you are doing for map control and resources.

Tech T3 and get Stugs / PzIV's. Despite what some people say. PzIV's are still pretty potent vs infantry and can win 1v1 vs Shermans. Stugs are great vs Medium tanks but do suffer vs Jacksons. Ostwind imo is only really needed if they are going super heavy on infantry and lacking on armour.

Tech T4 and get Panthers / Panzerwerfers. Panzwerfers will wipe out infantry blobs very easily and they are pretty effective right now. Panthers are pretty decent vs all USF armour. Best thing with a Panther is to keep it at max range and reverse if something tries to push on you. You will bounce quite a decent % of shots this way but can still penetrate their armour. You want to make the allied players have to invest and commit lots of forces to kill a Panther.

In terms of doctrines there are a few choices and depends on what your partner is doing.

Lightning war is probably my favourite. JU-87 is very powerful and against as well as infantry. If you can manage to drop it on a Major / Ambulance, it will do heavy damage. Tigers are still decent vs USF thanks to their range buff. Will do decent damage against Rifles and are pretty durable - be wary using them when Jacksons are around though. I really like G43's as it gives a more constant damage output and makes gren much better and Mid / Close range as well as better dps while moving. Depends what the USF player is doing regarding weapon upgrades. Relief infantry can be pretty handy just to use as meat shields or extra capping squads.

Jager Armour is a strong 2v2 commander on fairly open / long maps. As long as its supported well with Grens / Paks, its pretty difficult for USF to take down.

CAS can work well but it depends on the map and the micro of the opponent.

If you are still having issues, I would suggest uploading some replays and ask for help as well as watching your own as well, regardless of whether you win or lose. Failing that, play USF for awhile and see what gives you problems. Regardless of how "easy" or "OP" USF is, you will get beaten sooner or later. Seeing how people beat you will give you ideas of how you can win.

FWIW, I'm pretty much the only one with high level 2v2 Automatch ranking / experience here (and most people are hiding their player card).

Any questions fire away

I'm having a lot of succes with double sniper behind and a line of 2 MG's. On maps like Langreskaya, this is working really good.

Similar to the K-man I like using 2x osttrupen with an MG42 and then two snipers. Use the Ost to screen light vehicle rushes in your snipers and spot for flanks to reposition your MG.

Lately I have been trying new things. I found this to be quite effective;

MG
Gren
MG
Gren
MG


I go for an aggressive house early with my pio and rush my first MG to it. By the time they get their 2nd rifle squad to support an attack i have my pio + grens to help out. I place my 2nd MG watching the flank of the first MG (second MG should be behind the first). The third MG comes out to shore up additional flanks if needed. Even with smoke you can upgrade to LMG Grens and fall back to your 2nd MG if you need to.

It requires a bit of micro with 3 MGs and all but it can really frustrate the opponent. Double paks if I see a Cpt, otherwise you can get whatever you want. Use mines, lots of mines.

Late game I go 2x Ostwind to protect my (2-3) paks and hunt down retreating infantry. They also shoot down any air abilities with ease. End the game with a Tiger / Tiger Ace / Elephant. I HEAVILY use my 2x Ostwind to harass all parts of the map, to support defenses and launch counter-attacks.

have you tried AGrens? I find that 3 AGrens and 2 mg 42s are really effective against USF and UKF

This is a matter of trusting on your micro.

First of all, it's important to know what the USF partner's faction is. For either USF/UKF/SU you'll have to account for different things.

Little tip: you can see whether you are facing USF (big circle base), UKF (sandbags) or SU (nothing) on your side. You can check if SU builds any tech by waiting at the enemy base to see the Xp kicker show up (you
don't know if it's T1 or T2)

If paired with UKF/SU (expecting T1): Sniper-Gren-Gren-Gren/MG I don't need the MG for crowd control (CC). Grens will protect from early Bren/M3.
If paired with USF/SU (no T1): MG-Sniper-Gren-Gren MG42 will help with the flood early on.



Transition to T2: you'll have to notice if he either goes LT or Cpt.
Against M20, quick 222 to put it at bay while you keep bleeding with snipers.
Against AAHT, you'll need a pak
Against Stuart, you'll need a pak OR you can try double 222 if you trust your partner with rak/pak play. I'll only go with this against an USF paired with UKF or sometimes other USF.



Later on either i tech T3 and play with mediums into call ins or add a 2nd sniper and go T4.

Grens dont really scale vs Rifles anymore and get wiped by AOE as easily as ever, Osttruppen plus lategame snipers are your best friend.

have you tried AGrens?

2xBars plus hellish flames. So they will be good for only 3 minutes.

The Pack Howitzer isn't helping this dynamic much either. 4x Riflemen 2x Pack Howitzer in the late-game completely shuts down infantry play.

lol some people saying keep micro up
why wasn't this issue brought up in cas threads or mg42 op threads lol