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2v2/1v1 balance

21 Aug 2015, 03:47 AM
#1
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

I had wrote a long post on 2v2/1v1 but stupid browser unlogged me out when I hit create and erased 10 minutes worth of work GRRR. So all I am going to say is How do you all feel about 2v2/1v1 balance. I find that axis invincible late game doesn't exist and neither is allied early game (cheese or w/e) overwhelming.
21 Aug 2015, 03:52 AM
#2
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

Overall I think it's pretty even. Victory usually goes to the best players.

I think all relic needs to work on now is work on increasing the number of strategies and diversity.
21 Aug 2015, 04:03 AM
#3
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

I think so too but, I worry the quest for the 4v4 woes will ruin the better balance in 2v2/1v1.
21 Aug 2015, 04:08 AM
#4
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

I think so too but, I worry the quest for the 4v4 woes will ruin the better balance in 2v2/1v1.
4v4s biggest problem is cache sharing. Dealing with that would leave 1v1 completely the same and have little effect on 2v2.
21 Aug 2015, 04:14 AM
#5
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

4v4s biggest problem is cache sharing. Dealing with that would leave 1v1 completely the same and have little effect on 2v2.


How could you fix cache sharing without leaving OKW severely disadvantaged or making it a scramble to put down caches between individual players? I've been thinking about this a lot but I'm stumped.
21 Aug 2015, 04:44 AM
#6
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2



How could you fix cache sharing without leaving OKW severely disadvantaged or making it a scramble to put down caches between individual players? I've been thinking about this a lot but I'm stumped.


accept it as purposely designed disadvantage.
21 Aug 2015, 05:47 AM
#7
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

blame the maps
21 Aug 2015, 05:54 AM
#8
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561



How could you fix cache sharing without leaving OKW severely disadvantaged or making it a scramble to put down caches between individual players? I've been thinking about this a lot but I'm stumped.
They would be no more disadvantaged then they would be in 1v1.

All getting rid of cache sharing would do would be to make the 4v4 econonomy look more like it does in 1v1. 1v1 is what is the intended design, and the huge difference in economy is what makes balance in the higher player modes so crazy.

Don't forget that this also means allies won't have as much as well. I don't think OKW will do as bad as you think. They are currently the strongest 4v4 faction by far.
21 Aug 2015, 14:22 PM
#9
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

They would be no more disadvantaged then they would be in 1v1.

All getting rid of cache sharing would do would be to make the 4v4 econonomy look more like it does in 1v1. 1v1 is what is the intended design, and the huge difference in economy is what makes balance in the higher player modes so crazy.

Don't forget that this also means allies won't have as much as well. I don't think OKW will do as bad as you think. They are currently the strongest 4v4 faction by far.


Are you suggesting that caches should only benefit the player who built them?

I agree on idea, but then I feel like 4v4 randumbs (even though the game is designed around 1v1) would just become a rush to get caches down.

I wouldn't mind seeing cache's removed from the game personally.
21 Aug 2015, 14:34 PM
#10
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2015, 04:44 AMpigsoup


accept it as purposely designed disadvantage.


This past tournament had almost no OKW players in the 3's and 4's for a reason, are you shooting for no OKW in competitive 3's and 4's?
21 Aug 2015, 14:44 PM
#11
avatar of CptEend
Patrion 14

Posts: 369

There can be no such thing as competitive 3v3/4v4s
21 Aug 2015, 15:07 PM
#12
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2



This past tournament had almost no OKW players in the 3's and 4's for a reason, are you shooting for no OKW in competitive 3's and 4's?


can't fathom why there weren't any.

and no, i am shooting for less or no cache in 3v3+.

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2015, 14:44 PMCptEend
There can be no such thing as competitive 3v3/4v4s


ha ha. ha. h. a. that was funny 2 years ago.
21 Aug 2015, 15:18 PM
#13
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561



Are you suggesting that caches should only benefit the player who built them?

I agree on idea, but then I feel like 4v4 randumbs (even though the game is designed around 1v1) would just become a rush to get caches down.

I wouldn't mind seeing cache's removed from the game personally.
They could just put in a cache stacking machanic, so teammates don't have to fight for cache space. That would also add incentive to raid for caches if 1 cache could potentially be worth 800mp of your enemies investments.
21 Aug 2015, 15:24 PM
#14
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

They could just put in a cache stacking machanic, so teammates don't have to fight for cache space. That would also add incentive to raid for caches if 1 cache could potentially be worth 800mp of your enemies investments.


Ooh I like that a lot.
21 Aug 2015, 15:34 PM
#15
avatar of Zansibar

Posts: 158 | Subs: 2

The better player and better build always wins.
21 Aug 2015, 15:36 PM
#16
avatar of DustBucket

Posts: 114

They could just put in a cache stacking machanic, so teammates don't have to fight for cache space. That would also add incentive to raid for caches if 1 cache could potentially be worth 800mp of your enemies investments.


i would definitely go for this
21 Aug 2015, 17:26 PM
#17
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2015, 15:07 PMpigsoup


can't fathom why there weren't any.

and no, i am shooting for less or no cache in 3v3+.


The reason why there were none is competitively OKW has fuck all to offer outside of support. Basic Ostheer infantry is better, Ostheer has access to more counters, and Ostheer has much less vulnerabilities.

Every 3v3 and 4v4 was 2 Ost 1 OKW and 3 Ost 1 OKW respectively, the people who didn't follow this formula lost badly.

Have the 1 OKW player put his schwer on an Important cutoff, have him make a really early forward HQ, have him make multiple Sturms to help repair tanks, ect. It's all just support stuff to keep the Ostheer players in the field.

Without caches to support the OKW player (because without the fuel he won't be able to fulfill HIS end of the bargin) there would be no reason to take an OKW ally in 3's or 4's.
21 Aug 2015, 17:41 PM
#18
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891



The reason why there were none is competitively OKW has fuck all to offer outside of support. Basic Ostheer infantry is better, Ostheer has access to more counters, and Ostheer has much less vulnerabilities.

Every 3v3 and 4v4 was 2 Ost 1 OKW and 3 Ost 1 OKW respectively, the people who didn't follow this formula lost badly.

Have the 1 OKW player put his schwer on an Important cutoff, have him make a really early forward, have him make multiple Sturms to help repair tanks, ect. It's all just support stuff to keep the Ostheer players in the field.

Without caches to support the OKW player (because without the fuel he won't be able to fulfill HIS end of the bargin) there would be no reason to take an OKW ally in 3's or 4's.


I don't know about this. Walking Stuka, JPIV, and Jagdtiger are all great in big team games. Plus Volks are good cannon fodder troops. Panzerfusiler with G43s are also better than lmg grens.
21 Aug 2015, 17:49 PM
#19
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



I don't know about this. Walking Stuka, JPIV, and Jagdtiger are all great in big team games. Plus Volks are good cannon fodder troops. Panzerfusiler with G43s are also better than lmg grens.


Except StuG III's are much easier to spam. A JPIV is all well and good but when it's outnumbered 4 or 5 to one well....

But yes, Walking Stuka is popular, but the Elefant is much better than the Jadgtiger versus spam because it doesn't get stun locked easy, it can sight for itself, and it is much much more mobile which is extremely important on big maps.
21 Aug 2015, 19:06 PM
#20
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

It seems horizontal based on preference really, with Ostheer being slightly more self-reliant and versatile but also having less potential to be really powerful if you perfectly craft strategies and synergies. Stug is spammable and has TWP but comes later. JPIV can come earlier, is better but pricey, and has active camo.

One nice thing about the Jagdtiger is doctrine, Panzerfusiliers are great and Sturm Officer goes well with Prostruppen.

I think the OKW only having the Stuka and infiltration nades to deal with emplacements is a design flaw though. The ISG should be able to lay down smoke, and Sturms satchel charges.
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