Pack Howitzer doesn't do it's job

I understand that the Pak howie is great at hitting squads close by and running straight at it, however, my biggest gripe with the pak howie is that it goes against USF faction design.

The USF faction was designed as a high DPS faction that is meant to be constantly on the move and attacking enemy positions. All USF support weapons support this fact. The .50 is capable of setting up quickly, making it a viable support unit for attacking infantry. The M1 57mm AT gun has a fast ROF with low pen, making it a unit that is meant to be used on the flanks of engagements and quickly re-positioned. All USF armor has low survivability, but instead rely on their mobility to make up for their weaknesses.

The USF indirect support weapon should be a fast moving weapon that is meant to constantly reposition to keep up with rapidly moving forces. It should be a lighter mortar or a mortar HT, capable of quickly moving into range, doing its job, and pulling back.

This is the main reason why I find the Pak Howitzer underwhelming. It is a good support weapon in the wrong army. As such it suffers from not having other units adept to doing the same job it does (holding territory), whilst not particularly aiding the mobile tactics required for the use of literally every other USF unit.

This is pretty much it.

using the pack howitzer is still too risky.

If I try to use it offensively, it's really easy to lose it as it lack the retreat capability of the mortar or the range and gunshield on the Leig.

It have a 6 men crew but require 3 men at the minimal, further hurting its survivability.

Pack howie is only worth it in RE heavy builds IMO.

Best solution is to make it replace the AT gun drop in airborne company (T0 AT gun is coming) and fill its spot with something useful in more situations. (Mortar, basic M3 Halftrack, a mortar)

Why does it get decrewed below 3 men? Make it so it gets decrewed after losing 5 men. Like mortars. Thats about all id do to it.

a lot of people aren't getting his point, which is that the pack howitzer does not the do the job it's intended to do, it does a different job. it's like buying a truck for hauling only to find out the truck doesn't actually haul well but instead does 0-60 like a porsche. great, if you still have a use for it.

Why does it get decrewed below 3 men? Make it so it gets decrewed after losing 5 men. Like mortars. Thats about all id do to it.

decrewed at -1 man? oh yes.

(i get your point, i just couldn't resist.) apparently it also has to have 3 guys for the animations to work which means that it probably SHOULD be a 6 man crew so that you could lose 3 and still have the weapon function.

Pack Howie is dank as fuck, squad wipes for days

What if the Pak Howie barrage was significantly better (more shells/better accuracy) but on a longer cooldown while simultaneously nerfing or removing autofire? The unit has 160 barrage range but only 80 autofire range (LEIG has 100 for both) so it was probably originally intended to be barrage based. That way instead of trying to keep up with the rest of the USF it could hang out near the rear lines and provide barrage fire support like a mini version of rocket arty. This would also help solve USF lack of late game arty while differentiating the Pak Howie enough that it wouldn't overlap with a T0 light mortar if that was added.

OKW one feels better, pack howie is still an annoying piece of equipment just as the OKW one. Could see some love in the accuracy department though.

Pack howitzer is ok, maybe when we talk about direct help you need to bring it too close to make it perform, but when you just leave it work it ends killing and harassing more than you will expect, i prefer it over mortars because his range, his damage and his suppresion, if it gets more accurated it could become unbalanced

Dont forget to use the barage abillity, dont just let it sit there autofire like a regular mortar, it kinda shit that way. When it gets vet one, spam enemy base with WP. When it gets vet2 its shoots nukes.

a lot of people aren't getting his point, which is that the pack howitzer does not the do the job it's intended to do, it does a different job. it's like buying a truck for hauling only to find out the truck doesn't actually haul well but instead does 0-60 like a porsche. great, if you still have a use for it.



decrewed at -1 man? oh yes.

(i get your point, i just couldn't resist.) apparently it also has to have 3 guys for the animations to work which means that it probably SHOULD be a 6 man crew so that you could lose 3 and still have the weapon function.

Maybe if he does a different job that the one you expect, you should change your expectation and use it the way he actually works

I like it, sure it sucks vs single units but against gren blobs it's just a wipe machine.

Park it near your ambo with clear los (middle on Moscow or Rails) and it will get pay off with vet 2-3 for most games.

Also pretty sure they never fixed HEAT shells, had a game just now where it was penning a Panther on autofire more frequently than my teamates AT gun.

Its not good enough to say its better than a mortar. Shot blockers often make the packhowi useless as your rounds run into weird invisible walls.

Another issue is the howi's performance is often VERY rng and can cause some huge frustrations when the blob is rolling up to you and it overshoots by 100m or gets shot blocked due to the invis walls. The inconsistency in its performance makes the cost seem like a huge risk and due to its decrewing at less than 3 man, its hard to keep alive or even move.

The barrage is also another issue. Sometimes when using the ability, the round will be fired directly up and take about 30-45 seconds to even reach the target. The scatter on the barrage often has the B4 syndrome where the rounds will hit NO where close to the intended target and the 3 round cap on it makes it hard to keep the unit usefull.

Another issue with the pakhowi is its limited range that takes up about 40% of its fire ark making it almost impossible to find a good spot for it to keep hitting blobs and emplacements without putting your howi at serous risk. Unlike the mortar that can be placed behind a building, the howi needs direct line of sight for its rounds to not get shot blocked.

The unit comes out late, costs a lot of MP for an already MP heavy faction (riflemen late game Bleed), half its fire ark is gone, and the performance is to inconsistent. On a faction that can get shutdown by MG spam you would think that the pakhowi would be the back bone of the combined arms of USF.

Overall USF needs a mortar or the pakhowi needs to be adjusted.

So I recently decided to watch relic's latest stream where Brad attempted to show us how to play with USF (by promptly losing of course).
http://www.twitch.tv/relicentertainment/v/9113981

The thing that stood out to me was how much the pack howitzer failed in it's role. Brad originally got it to counter his opponents mortar and protect his fighting positions. Not only did it not hit the mortar once despite brad targeting it every chance he got, it eventually got taken out by the very mortar he got it to take out.

Also after the unit was taken out by mortar fire the enemy re-crewed it and rolled off with it. Because of its ineffectiveness and its 11 pop cap maybe its better to let the enemy take it. Might mean less heavies for them in late game. Hopefully that stream will help to dislodge relics stubborn refusal to give USF any balls.

What if the Pak Howie barrage was significantly better (more shells/better accuracy) but on a longer cooldown while simultaneously nerfing or removing autofire? The unit has 160 barrage range but only 80 autofire range (LEIG has 100 for both) so it was probably originally intended to be barrage based. That way instead of trying to keep up with the rest of the USF it could hang out near the rear lines and provide barrage fire support like a mini version of rocket arty. This would also help solve USF lack of late game arty while differentiating the Pak Howie enough that it wouldn't overlap with a T0 light mortar if that was added.

The barrage on the pack howitzer also has the same explosive effect as the sherman's HE. So I do think it was at some point a barrage only unit early in development. It was probably changed because they didn't have a mortar, but I would rather them just give them the mortar and have it be barrage only.

If its not better than a mortar, which it isnt, its worthless.

The Pack Howtzer needs MAJOR buffs,it performes worse then a ISG and 81/82mm mortars yet costs more.
its has very short range(and it has huge minimal firing range,it has AWFUL ACCURACY very RNG depended,it cant retreat,gets decrewed when it loses 4 men and all that for 380 MP XD.
if you think this unit is ok you either have RNG in your favor or just havent used it

The Pack Howtzer needs MAJOR buffs,it performes worse then a ISG and 81/82mm mortars yet costs more.
its has very short range(and it has huge minimal firing range,it has AWFUL ACCURACY very RNG depended,it cant retreat,gets decrewed when it loses 4 men and all that for 380 MP XD.
if you think this unit is ok you either have RNG in your favor or just havent used it

It needs adjustments that is all unless you want to redesign the unit. Make the veterancy improve auto-fire (pretty sure giving it back the old auto-fire HEAT rounds would be too much), increase the number of shells per barrage (move to 6?) to make it better at bombing positions, and maybe adjust survivability against indirect-fire since 3 members of the crew bunch up heavily. This would make it better as it vets without needing to barrage with HEAT, allow it to be better at forcing units to move/shell positions.

Also it's range isn't that bad for the job it currently excels at which is a direct-fire gun that can barrage over obstacles rather than a mortar. If people are closing from its 80 firing range to is 40 minimum without stopping, get spotters.

Pack howitzer is supposed to be a USF mortar, right? Then why is such a scam? 120mm mortar is cheaper than it and is 3x better.

It needs adjustments that is all unless you want to redesign the unit. Make the veterancy improve auto-fire (pretty sure giving it back the old auto-fire HEAT rounds would be too much), increase the number of shells per barrage (move to 6?) to make it better at bombing positions, and maybe adjust survivability against indirect-fire since 3 members of the crew bunch up heavily. This would make it better as it vets without needing to barrage with HEAT, allow it to be better at forcing units to move/shell positions.

Also it's range isn't that bad for the job it currently excels at which is a direct-fire gun that can barrage over obstacles rather than a mortar. If people are closing from its 80 firing range to is 40 minimum without stopping, get spotters.

i stated why this gun is awful,vet bonuses wont fix it.
either buff its accuracy or decreace its prive EVEN MORE down to 280 mp and i will be ok with it