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Relic, you gonna fix 120mm, or not?

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24 Apr 2015, 16:32 PM
#21
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

This unit is hard to balance. A bigger badder mortar is always going to be difficult to balance. If it sees more nerfs though it needs a cost reduction, it is useful now because you can occasionally get wipes. Remove that ability and it becomes a huge liability without much use.
24 Apr 2015, 16:33 PM
#22
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



its sort of a micro problem, but the tremendous range means it can auto fire a crossed the map at just about anything. I sure cant move all my units simultaneously, plus weapons teams have to not be moving to be doing things. That first 120 shot could easily wipe it before you know it was firing at it in the first place. Not to mention the precision shot at vet one.

every faction has gotten indirect fire buffed by the cover change, only the 120 has been a squad wiping machine. The Ostheer turbo mortar comes in second in this category, but its small blast radius prevents it from wiping all the time and rather just doing a consistent bleed.


Again not true. I have got plenty of wipes with all of the factions indirects. Admittedly, not as many as the 120mm, but then again, the 120mm is doctrinal, so I expect it to have certain perks over normal indirects.
24 Apr 2015, 16:35 PM
#24
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470




Is that really true? I know that when I use the 120mm (or any indirect for that matter), I always manually make the mortar fire upon any squad I see bunched up.


the wurfrahmen, not the 120. the 120 is most certainly not a skill shot.
24 Apr 2015, 16:37 PM
#25
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



the wurfrahmen, not the 120. the 120 is most certainly not a skill shot.


I hardly see dragging a line across the map, as any more skill than manually targeting a bunched up squad, especially as you can do that 'skill shot' into the FoW, and it will hit exactly where you want it to, without any RnG involved like barrage...
24 Apr 2015, 16:39 PM
#26
avatar of Losttruppen

Posts: 63

On top of fixing unit behaviour in cover, I feel this thing will still need something of a drawback. Right now it is incredibly effective for its cost and arrival timing.

Baring a stuka barrage on someone who isn't paying attention this thing is nigh impossible to decrew, and with its wide range and the fact it can retreat make this thing far more than a nuisance. Either have it decrew at 2 men like all other mortars or remove retreat.

As for it being doctrinal only, that is a poor justification as it is in one of the best doctrines soviets have.
24 Apr 2015, 16:40 PM
#27
avatar of JohnnyShaun

Posts: 144

Skilled player steal the 120, not flame against
24 Apr 2015, 16:43 PM
#28
avatar of siuking666

Posts: 707

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Apr 2015, 15:58 PMBudwise
They attempted in the last patch but it doesn't really seem any different.


Attempted?...

Mid AOE was buffed on top of far AOE nerf :banana:
24 Apr 2015, 16:43 PM
#29
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

On top of fixing unit behaviour in cover, I feel this thing will still need something of a drawback. Right now it is incredibly effective for its cost and arrival timing.

Baring a stuka barrage on someone who isn't paying attention this thing is nigh impossible to decrew, and with its wide range and the fact it can retreat make this thing far more than a nuisance. Either have it decrew at 2 men like all other mortars or remove retreat.


It already has an incredible pop cost, is doctrinal, and costs 400mp to call in. I don't really know what penalties on top of these you propose?

Perhaps all indirects should be nerfed, so that the 120mm can keep it's spot as the best manpower only indirect, without it being too effective.
24 Apr 2015, 16:45 PM
#30
avatar of siuking666

Posts: 707


Why they thought that made sense is really anyone's guess.


It's really not news that the whole studio doesn't have someone with normal IQ / play testing.
24 Apr 2015, 16:45 PM
#31
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



Attempted?...

Mid AOE was buffed on top of far AOE nerf :banana:


Yes, so it's mid AOE is now in range of LeiG and Wher Mortar effective ranges, so you can get into that range without being destroyed on the way in, giving you a soft counter. You could also, you know, flank it with infantry, for a hard counter...
24 Apr 2015, 16:47 PM
#32
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

Just get a game my opponents Gren and vet 3 PG walking up to my UNSUPPORTED 120, trying to take it out, but getting squadwiped by this exact mortar. I didn't give any command to the 120.

It must be fun. Good balance. FFS.
24 Apr 2015, 16:48 PM
#33
avatar of siuking666

Posts: 707



Yes, so it's mid AOE is now in range of LeiG and Wher Mortar effective ranges, so you can get into that range without being destroyed on the way in, giving you a soft counter. You could also, you know, flank it with infantry, for a hard counter...


vs noobs like you? sure I can do that.
How about I play soviet using Guard Motor and you try to steal it from me? If you fail then dont bullshit people with you can do xxxx.
24 Apr 2015, 16:48 PM
#34
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Apr 2015, 16:47 PMPorygon
Just get a game my opponents Gren and vet 3 PG walking up to my UNSUPPORTED 120, trying to take it out, but getting squadwiped by this exact mortar. I didn't give any command to the 120.

It must be fun. Good balance. FFS.


So he blobbed 2 squads together, in sight and range of the mortar, and didn't expect to take losses? It must have been like that, as the motars RoF wouldn't allow that if he had been spaced out. That sounds like a skill issue of your opponent, rather than an imbalance.
24 Apr 2015, 16:52 PM
#35
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



vs noobs like you? sure I can do that.
How about I play soviet using Guard Motor and you try to steal it from me? If you fail then dont bullshit people with you can do xxxx.


Now now, there is no need to resort to name calling.

I have done it many times. I have also failed many times when I have come up against an opponent higher skilled than myself, who actually supported it well. Perhaps this is your issue? Maybe the guy you failed against was just a better player, and out skilled you. It happens.

CoH is much like poker. Everybody thinks their better at it, then they actually are.
24 Apr 2015, 16:57 PM
#36
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470



I hardly see dragging a line across the map, as any more skill than manually targeting a bunched up squad, especially as you can do that 'skill shot' into the FoW, and it will hit exactly where you want it to, without any RnG involved like barrage...


you setup the line, and the other player hears it fire. the targeted player has a couple of seconds to guess which way you're firing and react accordingly. it's enough most of the time but setup teams have problems and pathing sometimes fucks things up. i don't usually lose a lot of squads to a wurfrahmen unless there are pathing issues. the only problem i see with the unit is the lethal aoe, which is quite big, and how hard it is to kill. again though, both are mitigated in smaller games by the timing gate on the unit.
24 Apr 2015, 16:58 PM
#37
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779



So he blobbed 2 squads together, in sight and range of the mortar, and didn't expect to take losses? It must have been like that, as the motars RoF wouldn't allow that if he had been spaced out. That sounds like a skill issue of your opponent, rather than an imbalance.


He never blob, it is one single squad. At least 3 times in that game. If you want the replay, I upload it.

Don't go full retarded if you gonna say moving a Gren / PG towards a 120mm, throwing a nade, is a wrong move.

24 Apr 2015, 17:03 PM
#38
avatar of Tea Maker Machine

Posts: 270

Less accurate than a GrW. Needs an accuracy buff.
24 Apr 2015, 17:04 PM
#39
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9



Now now, there is no need to resort to name calling.

I have done it many times. I have also failed many times when I have come up against an opponent higher skilled than myself, who actually supported it well. Perhaps this is your issue? Maybe the guy you failed against was just a better player, and out skilled you. It happens.

CoH is much like poker. Everybody thinks their better at it, then they actually are.


If we ran a "Post of the Week", this would be a good contender. :)

Calm yourselves, please, people :)

Back to topic
24 Apr 2015, 17:17 PM
#40
avatar of Mettiu

Posts: 100



If 120mm was an Axis weapon, you would have said : "Work as intented, you allied fanboy can't understand 400MP so expensive, L2P guys some counter exist" :lolol:


What is the counter mr noob ? 5 LeiGs with officer?
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