Current Ostheer in effect.
Not too weak, not too strong, now pays for mistakes.
Great, so let's make soviet pay for mistakes too.
Ostheer, the never ending struggle
14 Apr 2015, 11:34 AM
#121
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Great, so let's make soviet pay for mistakes too.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
14 Apr 2015, 11:50 AM
#122
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
But if he or she goes for 5 riflemen squads, 2 grens and 2mgs won't cut it, you will be hard pressed since rifles fight well at long, medium and close range.. How do you tech up? Do you rush for t2 and get a pak or do you rush for t3 and pz4 or stug?
And what if it doesn't hit the teller, you are pretty much screwed then..
Thats why I've said you need 5 to 6 T1 units.
You don't need to rush for anything, in fact rushing T2 against USF I consider as a bad idea, you need to establish some map control first, otherwise you'll be pushed back and he'll just rush light armor.
I tech after 5th or depending on pressure 6th unit, then depending on what he does, 251 for map presence or 222 to fight off M20, only then I find the need for PaK. You can stall to T4 if you have CAS doctrine, if not the choice betweem P4 and Tiger isn't really as obvious as it was before against USF due to new jackson being better vs tigers and worse vs P4s.
So don't rush anything, keep focus to not lose anything(mainly MGs, better to retreat too early and give up sector then too late and give up MG), there is no IS-2 coming, so there is nothing forcing you to rush, dual PaKs and faust will fend off any sherman after 10 min.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Apr 2015, 11:56 AM
#123
Posts: 204
Permanently Banned
Thats why I've said you need 5 to 6 T1 units.
You don't need to rush for anything, in fact rushing T2 against USF I consider as a bad idea, you need to establish some map control first, otherwise you'll be pushed back and he'll just rush light armor.
I tech after 5th or depending on pressure 6th unit, then depending on what he does, 251 for map presence or 222 to fight off M20, only then I find the need for PaK. You can stall to T4 if you have CAS doctrine, if not the choice betweem P4 and Tiger isn't really as obvious as it was before against USF due to new jackson being better vs tigers and worse vs P4s.
So don't rush anything, keep focus to not lose anything(mainly MGs, better to retreat too early and give up sector then too late and give up MG), there is no IS-2 coming, so there is nothing forcing you to rush, dual PaKs and faust will fend off any sherman after 10 min.
Alright, thank you, I will give this a try! I will still stand by my point though, the grens need a 5th model and the USF is to potent in early game, no strategy will deny that
14 Apr 2015, 12:33 PM
#124
Posts: 612
The only problem with not getting T2 early is if you see lieutenant tech, you'll need to promptly drop a teller or so rather than get LMGS. the later tech means that if they rush for a light vehicle it will have more of an impact on the game. waiting for 6 units against a USF player with huge map control might be a bit of a risk.
So as Katitof said, around the 4th unit you get you have to look at what your opponent has and figure out your next move.
So as Katitof said, around the 4th unit you get you have to look at what your opponent has and figure out your next move.
14 Apr 2015, 12:45 PM
#125
Posts: 40
I agree with you apart from the fact that Ostheer early game is comparable with USF. In no way, shape or form can you perform anything like the USF early with the Ostheer. Riflemen blobs are still the doom of all Ostheers early game. Unless you get a nice map in which mgs can block certain approach paths very good. USF dominates early game.
Of course you're going to see Rifleman blobs in early game, it's literally the only thing that USF can build until they get 50 fuel/80. What are should we be spending our MP on? Rear Echelon? No.
I would be more than happy see see the 50 cal moved to the Barracks building and add the Mortar team from Adrennes Assault to the LT building.
14 Apr 2015, 12:52 PM
#126
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently BannedI'm playing ost much more recently then USF and from my experience, 3 grens 2 MGs and whatever 6th T1
6th?
u can build 6 if u want to bleed...
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
14 Apr 2015, 13:12 PM
#127
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
6th?
u can build 6 if u want to bleed...
Or not be base locked by rifles. It doesn't have to be gren you know, its not like USF have easy counter for mortar or sniper.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Apr 2015, 13:38 PM
#128
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
Or not be base locked by rifles. It doesn't have to be gren you know, its not like USF have easy counter for mortar or sniper.
m20 says hello
What is ur build order?
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
14 Apr 2015, 13:49 PM
#129
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
m20 says hello
What is ur build order?
If he have 5 rifles, he is not going for M20.
You have my BO in previous posts.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Apr 2015, 14:00 PM
#130
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
If he have 5 rifles, he is not going for M20.
You have my BO in previous posts.
5 rifles is too much...
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
14 Apr 2015, 15:08 PM
#131
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Generally its 3 Rifles and LT + M20, or 4 Rifles + Cpt.
I prefer LT against OST, cause M20 bazooka crew can handle very well the only serious counter, the 222.
6 T1 units with OST, you are going to bleed a lot of manpower, and he will win fight (cost effective at least), MG Vet 1 is not a real counter to M20, you always can press smoke if you did afk in front of a vet 1 MG. Every Faust in your M20 will be a huge victory, delay mines, delay Rifle grenades, delay LMG, delay medic, delay other faust.
I prefer LT against OST, cause M20 bazooka crew can handle very well the only serious counter, the 222.
6 T1 units with OST, you are going to bleed a lot of manpower, and he will win fight (cost effective at least), MG Vet 1 is not a real counter to M20, you always can press smoke if you did afk in front of a vet 1 MG. Every Faust in your M20 will be a huge victory, delay mines, delay Rifle grenades, delay LMG, delay medic, delay other faust.
14 Apr 2015, 15:18 PM
#132
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
5 rifles is too much...
Tell that to sprice.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Apr 2015, 16:01 PM
#133
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Perhaps it isn't the faction that's at fault but the player. Post the replay
14 Apr 2015, 17:43 PM
#134
Posts: 1705
Just make a new tournament,the reality will be well exposed.
Till then dedicated ost players,stay off the game like me or play a-move is-2iwin soviets.
Till then dedicated ost players,stay off the game like me or play a-move is-2iwin soviets.
14 Apr 2015, 17:47 PM
#135
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Just make a new tournament,the reality will be well exposed.
Till then dedicated ost players,stay off the game like me or play a-move is-2iwin soviets.
You don't really know how statistics work, or why 20-40 random players are no indicator of anything, do you?
You want reality?
Ask relic to give more data to Legends so he can compile another set of W/L graphs for factions.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Apr 2015, 17:51 PM
#136
Posts: 1484
Wehrmacht received early game buff in terms of Sniper and Scout car, both require more micro. Like Lemon said, It is not the faction that is at fault, but the player like this kid Austerlitz ^.
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14 Apr 2015, 17:52 PM
#137
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently BannedWehrmacht received early game buff in terms of Sniper and Scout car, both require more micro. Like Lemon said, It is not the faction that is at fault, but the player like this kid Austerlitz ^.
It may be the player.. but Ost vs usf is still tough
i have less issues vs sov cus lmg grens will beat all sov inf if micro'ed well
and double paks make short work of slow is2's
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
14 Apr 2015, 17:55 PM
#138
Posts: 1705
You don't really know how statistics work, or why 20-40 random players are no indicator of anything, do you?
You want reality?
Ask relic to give more data to Legends so he can compile another set of W/L graphs for factions.
Simple,because those will be among the active best players of the community.
Or u can let 1 month of this patch pass,then take W/L ratio of first 100-200 1 vs 1 players.Compare and u'll see where factions stand.
Won't make a difference,these fine gentlemen boasting abt ost earlygame and double mg42s now owning rifles,let them go try these stunts in a tourney match.First summon up courage to chose ostheer when facing usf in a tourney match knockout.
14 Apr 2015, 17:55 PM
#139
Posts: 1702
Just make a new tournament,the reality will be well exposed.
Till then dedicated ost players,stay off the game like me or play a-move is-2iwin soviets.
You haven't been watching star crossed kings have you?
Guess jesulin losing againts ostheer as USF in like 10 minutes means jesulin is very low level
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlcs89yWjaA
Oh wait, what is this tourney? looks like ostheer is being picked more over OKW. Fake tourney
14 Apr 2015, 17:55 PM
#140
Posts: 1484
It may be the player.. but Ost vs usf is still tough
i have less issues vs sov cus lmg grens will beat all sov inf if micro'ed well
and double paks make short work of slow is2's
Unless USF player is going Rifle Company, I did not have any problems using MG-42 + Pio combo into scout cars.
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