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russian armor

Russian engineers

3 Mar 2015, 08:38 AM
#21
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Mar 2015, 18:14 PMBurts



I'm not saying that pioneers will beat conscripts. Infact most of the time they will lose. But they can still win if they round a corner or something like that.


And they are definately fine. Ever played againts captainsprice pioneer flamer spam strat? That guy spams out like 4 flamers and blobs them like mad.


CE do exactly the same when you upgrade them with flamers,there's no justification that pios are more expensive, they should be made cheaper.
3 Mar 2015, 09:09 AM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8



CE do exactly the same when you upgrade them with flamers,there's no justification that pios are more expensive, they should be made cheaper.

Well, without upgrade pios are much better in combat then CEs.
3 Mar 2015, 09:12 AM
#23
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3


Well, without upgrade pios are much better in combat then CEs.


Against which units exactly - Rear Echelons?
3 Mar 2015, 09:18 AM
#24
avatar of CptEend
Patrion 14

Posts: 369

Against base Soviet infantry. No way that an unupgraded CE will win from a Grenadier on any range, whereas you've got a pretty good chance to beat a Conscript with a Pioneer squad in close range.

Still, CE provide more utility than Pioneers which makes them better overall, but that has to do with the fact that they've got much better mines, not with their fighting power.
3 Mar 2015, 09:30 AM
#25
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8



Against which units exactly - Rear Echelons?

Well, its not like CEs are effective against anything other then pios standing afk at max range anyway.
3 Mar 2015, 11:15 AM
#26
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2015, 08:05 AMRMMLz


The only thing I can remember is, they were mistakenly give Cons' Nagant rifle, and that made them kinda OP. They've fixed it.

They do have a lot of utility, but OP?? come one man.


They were doing a nominal amount of additional damage and were still fragile as a Garden. Factions/fanboyisms aside it reminds me of the T34 "accidental reload speed buff" that made the unit slightly more powerful and more desirable which meant an instant nerf.
3 Mar 2015, 13:11 PM
#27
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1



They were doing a nominal amount of additional damage and were still fragile as a Garden. Factions/fanboyisms aside it reminds me of the T34 "accidental reload speed buff" that made the unit slightly more powerful and more desirable which meant an instant nerf.


Well in that period, CE spam was powerful. Imagine 3-4 CE squads which can be upgraded with flamers as the game scales, can repair, plant demos and mines etc. They were fragile but very cheap to build and maintain. It's funny that they were what Soviet line infantry should be (scale well, cheap, weapon upgrade).
3 Mar 2015, 13:36 PM
#28
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

Given how cheap CEs are... I wonder how massive blobs (considering how many in the community believe Blobs are good for gameplay) of CE would go if you microed okay and prioritised one target. At long range those guys can do a number on sturmpios given luck...
3 Mar 2015, 14:45 PM
#29
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Not to mention CE with flame upgrade can barely (not even) stand up against Sturm, even at close range. The CE are very squishy and compared to Pios and Sturm, forget about it. I will agree with Katitof, Pios do well even without flame upgrade if you can flank and close in a squad while Grens inflict damage close range. Dont underestimate those small SMGs.
3 Mar 2015, 17:04 PM
#30
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Is not about CE being too cheap but Pios been a bit too expensive.
3 Mar 2015, 17:15 PM
#31
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

They could remove the rifles and flamethrower from CE and they would still be the best engineer unit in the game because of demo charges. Iv lost count of the squads If wiped with those.

Just make Pio's 170, who cares if they surprise a RE squad and kill it if the person controlling the RE squad totally forgets to retreat. That or give them demo charges, which every engineer unit should have in the first place.
3 Mar 2015, 20:09 PM
#32
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

Other than upkeep/reinforce I don't get why we want to reduce the cost of Pios by 20 or 30. It's rarely worth it to build a 2nd engineer in any of the factions.
3 Mar 2015, 20:23 PM
#33
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Other than upkeep/reinforce I don't get why we want to reduce the cost of Pios by 20 or 30. It's rarely worth it to build a 2nd engineer in any of the factions.


Well, you generally need those repairs since EFA have mediocre repair speeds when only one squad is at it. Also, need for multiple sweepers, especially vs Soviets.
3 Mar 2015, 20:24 PM
#34
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Getting 2 CE is something I do almost every game, gotta keep the demo's being rebuilt and mines being replaced. Also helps get artillery made faster.
3 Mar 2015, 22:03 PM
#35
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664



Well, you generally need those repairs since EFA have mediocre repair speeds when only one squad is at it. Also, need for multiple sweepers, especially vs Soviets.


Neither repairing nor sweeping is something that should be happening in combat so I think Pios are fine. I don't think a 20 mp reduction would accomplish much but I'm also not against it.
5 Mar 2015, 19:19 PM
#36
avatar of Bananainpajamas

Posts: 123

ive noticed alot of top players spamming cheap 170 mp engineers with flame throwers and con spam to support.. and it is very deadly.. those flamers crit very often are cheap to reinforce.. and are rarely needed off the battlefield .. not to mention you have alot of capping power.. and ostheer has shitty early counters to this on maps like semoisky and kholdony ferma..
5 Mar 2015, 19:21 PM
#37
avatar of Bananainpajamas

Posts: 123

my main complaint here is how cost effective they are.. rear echelons are 10 mp cheaper and are way more uselesss.. but that early capping power is very effective with cheap engineers which is why i find ostheer has a hard time dealing in there early game..
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