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russian armor

Where is USF air superiority?

22 Jan 2015, 15:32 PM
#61
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

For the history curious, here's some analysis on tank losses (Normandy):

http://lmharchive.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/18-Chapter-Ten1.pdf

Tl;DR: Initially most German losses were due to AP rounds (17pdr, 57mm) penetration, later almost half of German tanks were destroyed by their crews.



That makes sense... If your front lines have collapsed and your enemy is advancing 10-20 miles per day then what you want to do with any armored vehicle that has survived the first 6-7 weeks of conflict is GTFO. But if you have tanks with less-than-durable mechanical designs... and/or you do not have the logistical support to fuel them, then what you are likely to have to do is destroy them. After all, your fuel trucks and repair parts/crews have all gone BOOM when hit with 3" rockets, .50 cal rounds or 500 lb bombs.

That said, there were enough Panthers on the roads and fields of France that were abandoned or only temporarily disabled that the French were able to get almost 200 of them operational for a post war heavy armored brigade. It is from the long term operations of these Panthers that we know so much detail of their operational weaknesses. The French replaced them as soon as they could.
22 Jan 2015, 22:49 PM
#62
avatar of Frencho

Posts: 220

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2015, 15:32 PMAvNY

That said, there were enough Panthers on the roads and fields of France that were abandoned or only temporarily disabled that the French were able to get almost 200 of them operational for a post war heavy armored brigade. It is from the long term operations of these Panthers that we know so much detail of their operational weaknesses. The French replaced them as soon as they could.


http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/21/chieftains-hatch-french-panthers/

Indeed, here's a short article by WoT Chieftain dedicated to the French Post-War Experience with the Panthers; so far its the most objective account on the many weaknesses of the Panther Panzers. Turns out they were so strategically ineffective, that the French did not even bother with them for the Indochina War, and requested M36 Jacksons from the USA until they got their own national armament industry back in the mid 50s. The Panther was great on paper and if it managed to enter the frey, showcasing superb tactical efficiency due to an exceptionally accurate gun and excellent optics (Consequently very low ammo consumption as most shots hit the target), but what's the point if the blasted tank can't be relied upon to arrive where it's needed, it's better to have a decent allied tank than no tank at all!

Ultimately the Panther was a massive logistical and operational burden, it hampers the initiative of any ambitious tank commander. I guess the Germans made it shine a bit because they were on the defensive in a target reach environment, but it's a headache for offensive campaigns.

Regarding the lack of air supremacy USF commanders, I bet it's because CoH 2's USF faction is themed around the Battle of the Bulge, and as far as I know, artillery, not air power, played a crucial role during that Operation. I guess that WW2 Airplanes could barely spot enemy forces under the pine canopy of the Ardennes Forest, moreover the dreadful weather conditions kept the airplanes grounded most of the time.

Although I would certainly welcome an USA Airforce commander!

23 Jan 2015, 08:04 AM
#63
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



What if I told you that Luftwaffe strength was at it's peak in 1944?


I find it hard to believe. The last succesfull tactical bombardment at scale was in 1943 imediately after allied landing.
In 1944 Luftwaffe had rather a defensive role than an agressive one. The remaining planes where in their biggest majority just fighter planes in order to intercept allied bombers.
If "at it's pick" means that they had the most advanced planes, then you are right. They allways had the most advanced equipment, with few exceptons.
23 Jan 2015, 08:48 AM
#64
avatar of Low0dds

Posts: 151

Luftwaffe was lacking skilled pilots by 1944. Most had been lost during the Battle of Britain and on the eastern front. That doesn't mean Goering didn't throw everything he had in the air a few last times to no avail.

Back on topic.. I always thought that USA should have a doctrinal feature of calling in fighters to patrol for Air to Air threats and strafe ground targets randomly.. If you saw that the Ost. was using Luft. tactics it would be a perfect counter imo.. They could shoot down Stukas and destroy the airlift transports for a given amount of time...
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