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New to 4 VS 4 ? Read this first !

10 Oct 2014, 20:42 PM
#21
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 19:57 PMMessi
I think this game can reach some balance in 3v3 and 4v4, but it needs a lot of pro player feedback, work and time for tweaks from Relic.



Most of the pros play 1v1, although I do believe that if the game was perfectly balanced there, 4v4s would be in a much better shape
10 Oct 2014, 20:43 PM
#22
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 20:34 PMErguvan
if fixing 4v4 will break 1v1, i would like Relic to not touch 4v4. If you wanna play balanced, competitive match, you should leave 4v4 and go for 1v1 or 2v2. However, some may just want to have fun, then they might play 4v4.

First of all, bro, you should check yourself whether you want simple daily fun or you want competitive hard core fun. Then play the game in a suitable mode(1v1 or 4v4). That's the way I go for a match.
Why can't we just find a balance that works for all modes. We just need a equalizing factor that keeps certain units or builds from getting out of hand in the larger modes. Something like fuel upkeep.
10 Oct 2014, 20:48 PM
#23
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 19:50 PMMadeMan
Genuine Question: If 4v4 is so utterly broken, why do you continue to play it instead of moving to 1v1 or even 2v2 (2v2 I understand still has some issues but better than 4v4 from the sounds of it).

I personally hate long matches, and prefer to not have to rely/be relied on by other players so I only play 1v1, but I really want Relic to fix 4v4 so everyone can be happy.


Gets boring really fast

kinda make me feel like... :foreveralone:
10 Oct 2014, 20:49 PM
#24
avatar of CptEend
Patrion 14

Posts: 369

Why can't we just find a balance that works for all modes.


It's apparently already incredibly hard to balance 4 factions just for 1v1. Making them balanced in all 4 modes would be exponentially harder.
10 Oct 2014, 20:53 PM
#25
avatar of SwissCheese

Posts: 42



People believe that they can overcome imbalance if they try hard enough.

Doesnt work out, usually, and its not fair to tolerate it,


I agree.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 20:34 PMErguvan
if fixing 4v4 will break 1v1, i would like Relic to not touch 4v4. If you wanna play balanced, competitive match, you should leave 4v4 and go for 1v1 or 2v2. However, some may just want to have fun, then they might play 4v4.

First of all, bro, you should check yourself whether you want simple daily fun or you want competitive hard core fun. Then play the game in a suitable mode(1v1 or 4v4). That's the way I go for a match.


I have so many memories of épic battles IN COHO, WITH HUGE COMEBACKS and reversals ... You rarely see them IN COH2 (4vs4). Well you do see them sometimes, but the comeback is generally made by the axis.

Has to why i keep plaiying for now, there is simply no other RTS of that quality around. Some people play diablo or solitaire, i prefer a challenge (i am more a Dark Souls kind of guy than a diablo type game) and i love teamwork, i can enjoy 1 vs 1 from Time to Time, but large maps and large amont of variables is more satisfying to me and to many of my friends.

I find it annoying That we dont have at least ont more veto map in 4 vs 4. You are forced to play on axis advantage maps ... And WITH the lost orders... What a nightmare.


10 Oct 2014, 21:01 PM
#26
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9



I agree.



I have so many memories of épic battles IN COHO, WITH HUGE COMEBACKS and reversals ... You rarely see them IN COH2 (4vs4). Well you do see them sometimes, but the comeback is generally made by the axis.

Has to why i keep plaiying for now, there is simply no other RTS of that quality around. Some people play diablo or solitaire, i prefer a challenge (i am more a Dark Souls kind of guy than a diablo type game) and i love teamwork, i can enjoy 1 vs 1 from Time to Time, but large maps and large amont of variables is more satisfying to me and to many of my friends.

I find it annoying That we dont have at least ont more veto map in 4 vs 4. You are forced to play on axis advantage maps ... And WITH the lost orders... What a nightmare.




I'm puzzled that we still don't have Montargis or Route 113 in 4v4 These were undoubtedly the favourites in CoHO
10 Oct 2014, 21:28 PM
#27
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

I usually play 4v4 with my 2 mates as soviet. Recently one of them have bought Urban Defence Tactics. It is such a faceroll. We just take fattest building at the middle of the map (if there any) and pwn everything.

So... what I wanted to say? The point is in teamwork mostly. Faction balance isn't a thing when you are supported by other players.
10 Oct 2014, 21:46 PM
#28
avatar of Messi

Posts: 24


So... what I wanted to say? The point is in teamwork mostly. Faction balance isn't a thing when you are supported by other players.


This is true. But if the other team is good as your team and they have 4 King Tigers you and your team is out of combat.
10 Oct 2014, 22:07 PM
#29
avatar of ASneakyFox

Posts: 365

since the patch i think 4v4 is slightly more balanced. if allies aim for a short game they can overwhelm the axis.

soviets- you must always start with your T1. a good opener is conscripts-scout car-put engineers in car-penal batallion. The scout car is a hard counter to kubelwagens, USF has no early game hard counter to kubelwagens so you have to bring scout cars. If theres on OKW no the other team then use the scout cars to flank MG positions.

USF- you need smoke ASAP. smoke is your only early game soft counter to kubelwagens. a good opener is rifle-rifle-grenades unlock-rifle. Move around the map with your rifles in groups, but dont bunch up, have your rifles stay about LOS distance from eachother. this way they can quickly back eachother up, but you wont do anything stupid like walk your entire infantry in to an MG.

from there both factions should just keep spamming infantry. If youre going to win itll be by having complete map control by about 12 minutes. If you fail in that axis will probably win.
10 Oct 2014, 22:45 PM
#30
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

Well I'm a 1v1 player, and I think 4v4 is for noobs, and relic shouldn't even try to balance it because I personally don't play it. LONG LIVE KT SPAM!!!



4v4 was balanced pretty damn well before WFA, the only problems in the mode were ISUs, Elephants, tigers and Opel trucks all of which were addressed on release day of WFA.

As for the comments of the OP i completley agree about the Elo system not functioning correctly, this is due to how unpopular it is for competent players to play allies at the moment. Though soviets are still strong enough to compete against a non mixed axis team, i still don't play them b/c i get teammates that build build 7 rifles or 10 cons and run them in 1 square space into enemy mgs...

Please balance 1v1 at least i could play that then even if 4v4 isn't working...
10 Oct 2014, 23:16 PM
#31
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 20:34 PMErguvan


First of all, bro, you should check yourself whether you want simple daily fun or you want competitive hard core fun. Then play the game in a suitable mode(1v1 or 4v4). That's the way I go for a match.


How do you play a fun game in 4v4? All I see is nice game til 20 mins and then Jagdlol that hardcounters all armour. Armour that is needed since OKW infantry hardcounter allied infantry
11 Oct 2014, 00:20 AM
#32
avatar of ASneakyFox

Posts: 365

i sometims kind of wish 4v4 had an alternate mode, like one team is defense the other is offense. and the rules of the game mode could work into the (in)balance of large team games.

1v1 is where its at for a serious game, but 4v4s are fun because theyre more casual and slow paced. but have their merits
11 Oct 2014, 02:33 AM
#33
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

i sometims kind of wish 4v4 had an alternate mode, like one team is defense the other is offense. and the rules of the game mode could work into the (in)balance of large team games.

1v1 is where its at for a serious game, but 4v4s are fun because theyre more casual and slow paced. but have their merits


That would be cool. It could be an entirely different gae type as well like "Search and Destroy" or "Base Defense"
11 Oct 2014, 06:58 AM
#34
avatar of SwissCheese

Posts: 42



I'm puzzled that we still don't have Montargis or Route 113 in 4v4 These were undoubtedly the favourites in CoHO


Yesssssss !

Even Refinery or Steelpack ! Wait, maybe not Steelpack, OKW Stukas' could one shot kill and destroy an entire enemy base. And elephants ... So definitly no Steelpack for now.

that beiing said, come on Relic, add additionnel vetoes in 4 vs 4. Its really Easy to do, AND its a very concrete action to balance a little bit more in 4 vs 4.

Tks
11 Oct 2014, 07:13 AM
#35
avatar of Low0dds

Posts: 151



How do you play a fun game in 4v4? All I see is nice game til 20 mins and then Jagdlol that hardcounters all armour. Armour that is needed since OKW infantry hardcounter allied infantry


4v4s are fun because of the big battles. At least that imo. Allies usually need to play a careful game and make sure they cache up some fuel for the late game armor battles. That's when shit hits the fan. Just like in vCoH, late game belongs to Axis forces.. So get the game over quickly Allies or you will feel the Axis might...

11 Oct 2014, 07:55 AM
#36
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41


I have so many memories of épic battles IN COHO, WITH HUGE COMEBACKS and reversals ... You rarely see them IN COH2 (4vs4). Well you do see them sometimes, but the comeback is generally made by the axis.


As someone who played a bunch of teamgames in COHO and was fairly high rank in coh1, I'll just say the balance in COHO was HUGELY in favor of axis in all modes...even more so than COH2. If you had fun and interesting games there, it was because you played against people who couldn't figure out what parts of the game were completely and utterly broken (using broken axis hero units to immediately push allies off map, then using blitz flares to win every single engagement for the rest of the game, for instance)

11 Oct 2014, 08:42 AM
#37
avatar of Erguvan

Posts: 273



How do you play a fun game in 4v4? All I see is nice game til 20 mins and then Jagdlol that hardcounters all armour. Armour that is needed since OKW infantry hardcounter allied infantry


I havent played many games in 4v4 but it is funny for me to destroy a KT. I would prefer to destroy a KT rather than driving a KT. That's my point. People shouldnt only want to use high firepower units. That s so shallow. People should try to see in other aspects of the game in terms of fun.
11 Oct 2014, 10:13 AM
#40
avatar of SwissCheese

Posts: 42

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2014, 07:55 AMCruzz


As someone who played a bunch of teamgames in COHO and was fairly high rank in coh1, I'll just say the balance in COHO was HUGELY in favor of axis in all modes...even more so than COH2. If you had fun and interesting games there, it was because you played against people who couldn't figure out what parts of the game were completely and utterly broken (using broken axis hero units to immediately push allies off map, then using blitz flares to win every single engagement for the rest of the game, for insEtance)



My team AND myself were highly ranked too ( top 20 on allied side 4vs4. Almost never played axis ). COHO A BALANCED GAME ? No Way ! But WITH the dynamic doctrines, the custom units, commander customization feature, AND versatility for all factions ... almost everything was possible. Not in COH2. Versatility you find mainly on axis side, while you get vanilla AND limited basic units on allied teams, so you have to take great care in choosing amongst many useless commanders, the one that can compensate for the lack of real good starting unit. On the axis side, commanders are just icing on the cake.

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