Walking Stuka

It's fine, the katyusha is just if not even more effective and at a cheaper price. (especially when you consider OKW get a lower fuel income)

It's fine, the katyusha is just if not even more effective and at a cheaper price. (especially when you consider OKW get a lower fuel income)

hahahaha

The problem is not the blob-countering potential; the problem is the squad-wiping potential. This thing can very, very easily obliterate lone squads that are out capping or somesuch. Engineers, conscripts, shock troops, paratroopers, nothing can survive a concentrated barrage if RNG allows it. And that's just pure bullshit, unless one is supposed to counter a two-click barrage with moving all their infantry at once.

Yes, it's expensive, blah blah blah. It's still way too powerful, especially compared to conventional artillery that hits way less hard had gives you much more warning while not being much less expensive (the Priest for example). it's area of effect needs to be increased. Buff its penetration to compensate, it seems to not do much to vehicles.

Im not going to bother. I only see three results from possible changes.

#1: Unintentional Buff

#2: Uselessness/Removal

#3: Role Change

But Relic is either going to do nothing, or make a minor change.

It's fine, the katyusha is just if not even more effective

I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

Lower the cost then.

Nope, this won't help. Give back the fuel income to OKW and ability to build caches. Like this, it would be able to build enough AA sdkfzs and PIIs (and AFFORD TO LOSE THEM) to contain the early blobs (expecially american blobs carrying supressing guns) and spams or to build enough "Panzerwerfed" Wuhrframens or to feel more easy when building a Sturmtiger.

People should realise the game it's at its best state of balance untill now. I would be afraid to overnerf or overbuff.

The problem is not the blob-countering potential; the problem is the squad-wiping potential....

this

The problem is not the blob-countering potential; the problem is the squad-wiping potential.

Yah! As if it would be the only unit in COH2 capable of squad wiping. Soviets can have that, but when it comes to OKW, they are not allowed to squad wipe.

Yah! As if it would be the only unit in COH2 capable of squad wiping. Soviets can have that, but when it comes to OKW, they are not allowed to squad wipe.

Which soviet unit can wipe a nearly screen-size area from enemy units??
I thought that only ISU and such could instakill units and that is targeting a single unit at once. I can't believe you could think that ISU's shots are OP and fail to see that Stuka's barrage is even worse and cheaper.
Even so, both units should be nerfed.

I think that the only units that should be able to instakill a full health unit should be SturmTiger and B4.

Yah! As if it would be the only unit in COH2 capable of squad wiping. Soviets can have that, but when it comes to OKW, they are not allowed to squad wipe.

Only Soviet unit that can do it reliably is the ISU which is doctrinal, direct fire, slow as hell, has a much smaller AoE, and costs more than twice as much.

The ISU is also widely considered overpowered. You cannot say it is, then say the zu fuss is fine. Not without being hugely biased at any rate.

Sorry boys, soviet howitzer can do that, 120 mortar can do that (of course not at the same scale or as often as wurframen can do it), B4 can do that. AND they do that for a faction that has no fuel penalties.
So when I'm thinking Wurframen is fine, me and alot of people around here, I really don't think this sounds biased even if it would be.
It's a unique unit and it's intended to be this way as most of OKW vehicles.

If it will be nerfed and ISU left as it is, that will be a huge mistake. But this is quite possible to occur.

Sorry boys, soviet howitzer can do that, 120 mortar can do that (of course not at the same scale or as often as wurframen can do it), B4 can do that. AND they do that for a faction that has no fuel penalties.
So when I'm thinking Wurframen is fine, me and alot of people around here, I really don't think this sounds biased even if it would be.
It's a unique unit and it's intended to be this way as most of OKW vehicles.

If it will be nerfed and ISU left as it is, that will be a huge mistake. But this is quite possible to occur.

1) Soviet Howitzer: Sometimes I forgot it exists because nobody built one since beta, but it can't move, you can guess easily its max range and it's easy to retreat after the first shell lands. You should be really unfortunate to lose a full squad with the first shell. To add up, it is doctrinal. Huge AoE, but crappy accuracy.

2) 120 mortar: It has been nerfed from its former glory, I doubt seriously it can now wipe a full healed and vetted unit with just one shell. Usually it wipes wounded or maimed units. Even so, you can always retreat when you see it firing. By the way, it is also doctrinal and very easy to destroy it flanking with infantry. Small AoE, terrible accuracy

3) B4: Slow as hell, and yes it can wipe squads if you forgot about them and they stay static. Even so, the unit is static like a howitzer and easy to take care of. Guess what? Doctrinal too. Pinpoint AoE.

Stuka: mobile arty, you can't counter barrage it. It is not doctrinal, you can always build it. Usually there's no possibility to retreat for support weapons. Unit annihilation garanteed in 95% of cases. Huge AoE, 100% accuracy.

Don't you see that usually potentially squad-wiping units are static, with bad accuracy and easy to avoid and counter? Stuka hasn't not any of these flaws, being its only counter to suicide a T34 in order of killing it.

To hear people speaking of the Stuka, you'd think it launches six tactical nuclear missiles that automatically destroy a screen's worth of support weapons without fail and without any sort of warning. Sometimes it fails spectacularly, killing a total of six crewmen while shooting at 4 perfectly lined up weapon teams or infantry blob.

Anything mobile / garrisoned that gets hit by it I'd say is not on the Stuka but on the receiving player. Static weapon teams though...

In my experience I can actually predict when a barrage is due if I keep my eye on the clock. If ~2 minutes passed from the previous barrage, and the enemy has sight on my positions (a firefight breaks out, or I am shelling with 2 mortars which are in proximity to one another, or a flare / scoutplane is launched etc.)... it is actually possible to dodge the worst of the barrage provided you move as soon as you hear the sound (Allied MGs especially pack up super fast, AT guns are a different matter but ultimately doable).

I consistently get more kills with Infantry support guns throughout the game than with Stukas. As I said before, obviously the problem with the Stuka is the shock value - it's not that it kills more than other artillery, it's that it has more of an alpha strike, resulting in more squad wipes than other artillery. I have no problems with this within the framework of the OKW faction. For example, Obersoldaten have an accuracy bonus versus retreating troops. This tells me that the faction appears to be designed to not only have uber veterans, but also have more ways to rid the enemy of veterans. This might be broken design, might not be - not mine to say.

But as I said, it is the most expensive rocket arty in the game, with the longest cooldown in the game, in a fuel starved faction (meant to have few, but effective, units). What do you want from it?

5% cooldown bulletin just dropped


BWHWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

++++++++

Ahem, there also seems a lot of confirmation bias here

It does not obliterate everything in the line, I will sometimes find that the targets have had rockets land either side of them and come out relatively unscathed.


Those however tend not to be the times that people remember



But really, nobody likes have squads wiped, and any unit that does attracts a lot of hate

1) Soviet Howitzer: Sometimes I forgot it exists because nobody built one since beta, but it can't move, you can guess easily its max range and it's easy to retreat after the first shell lands. You should be really unfortunate to lose a full squad with the first shell. To add up, it is doctrinal. Huge AoE, but crappy accuracy.

2) 120 mortar: It has been nerfed from its former glory, I doubt seriously it can now wipe a full healed and vetted unit with just one shell. Usually it wipes wounded or maimed units. Even so, you can always retreat when you see it firing. By the way, it is also doctrinal and very easy to destroy it flanking with infantry. Small AoE, terrible accuracy

3) B4: Slow as hell, and yes it can wipe squads if you forgot about them and they stay static. Even so, the unit is static like a howitzer and easy to take care of. Guess what? Doctrinal too. Pinpoint AoE.

Stuka: mobile arty, you can't counter barrage it. It is not doctrinal, you can always build it. Usually there's no possibility to retreat for support weapons. Unit annihilation garanteed in 95% of cases. Huge AoE, 100% accuracy.

Don't you see that usually potentially squad-wiping units are static, with bad accuracy and easy to avoid and counter? Stuka hasn't not any of these flaws, being its only counter to suicide a T34 in order of killing it.

Any Vet 1 Soviet Arty has the potential to squad whipe. Even the lowly crap-tastic Kat. Also Demo charges can whipe multiple squads. ISU can still whipe squads. M8 can whipe squads. How about Mortar HT incin strike? Light Artillery Barrage. Stuka Dive Bomber.

100 second recharge. The width of about a T70 and a long line. Do you line up all your support squads?

The Walking Stuka always gets less kills in my games than an ISG. If it does well then great its a 100 fuel.

I would be fine however with it being 50 fuel and 60 second recharge for less effectivness. But thats not gonna happen.

To hear people speaking of the Stuka, you'd think it launches six tactical nuclear missiles that automatically destroy a screen's worth of support weapons without fail and without any sort of warning. Sometimes it fails spectacularly, killing a total of six crewmen while shooting at 4 perfectly lined up weapon teams or infantry blob.

Anything mobile / garrisoned that gets hit by it I'd say is not on the Stuka but on the receiving player. Static weapon teams though...

In my experience I can actually predict when a barrage is due if I keep my eye on the clock. If ~2 minutes passed from the previous barrage, and the enemy has sight on my positions (a firefight breaks out, or I am shelling with 2 mortars which are in proximity to one another, or a flare / scoutplane is launched etc.)... it is actually possible to dodge the worst of the barrage provided you move as soon as you hear the sound (Allied MGs especially pack up super fast, AT guns are a different matter but ultimately doable).

I consistently get more kills with Infantry support guns throughout the game than with Stukas. As I said before, obviously the problem with the Stuka is the shock value - it's not that it kills more than other artillery, it's that it has more of an alpha strike, resulting in more squad wipes than other artillery. I have no problems with this within the framework of the OKW faction. For example, Obersoldaten have an accuracy bonus versus retreating troops. This tells me that the faction appears to be designed to not only have uber veterans, but also have more ways to rid the enemy of veterans. This might be broken design, might not be - not mine to say.

But as I said, it is the most expensive rocket arty in the game, with the longest cooldown in the game, in a fuel starved faction (meant to have few, but effective, units). What do you want from it?

It's very much bad design. Squad wipes (of full health squads, I mean) should always be preventable, or cost a lot for what it does. Support powers squad wiping, or shots costing lots of ammo from units on the map, yeah not that big of a problem since you can see it coming and it's a hefty resource expenditure from your opponent. Demo charges need a long setup time and can be seen and shot. Stuka is the most expensive arty in the game, but also the most mobile (try moving a Katyusha around), the toughest, the most accurate, and the only one that has a concentrated barrage as a default rather than a 60+ ammo ability. It's not like you don't get what you pay for and then some.

No it doesn't destroy entire armies each shot. But one destroyed AT gun and any other wiped squad and it pays for itself, because you can't afford that level of attrition later in the game. It's also supremely hard to take down considering it moves fast, can take a bit if a beating and the OKW usually has a good defensive setup, including the flak truck which is a giant no-infantry, no light vehicle zone. Counter-barrage is also useless thanks to its mobile nature. As someone said, a suicide T-34 is the only viable counter unless your opponent(s) has built no AT whatsoever, and that's just stupid, not to mention not likely to work.

I would have no problem with the Stuka being powerful and more durable artillery. But its spread needs to be increased so that it wipes less squads. Or make its current barrage an ammo cost ability, and give it a wider one Panzerwerfer style for its free attack.

Stuka: mobile arty, you can't counter barrage it. It is not doctrinal, you can always build it. Usually there's no possibility to retreat for support weapons. Unit annihilation garanteed in 95% of cases. Huge AoE, 100% accuracy.

Don't you see that usually potentially squad-wiping units are static, with bad accuracy and easy to avoid and counter? Stuka hasn't not any of these flaws, being its only counter to suicide a T34 in order of killing it.

It is not 100% accurate, plenty of times I have seen its bombs land either side of a squad I aimed at and the squad comes away perfectly fine, or have multiple bombs land in almost the exact same place further up or further down the "barrage line" and completely miss.

Yes other times I've had it wipe squads, but it usually only gets 3-5 members of a 6 man soviet squad and then they just run away and reinforce.

snip

Also note in the standard commanders OKW also has no real off map. The ones it has are late game and only work on enemy owned territory. Assault artillery also has a MASSIVE lead time before any shells start to land, costs 200 muni with hampered resouces and only hits around the cap point i.e. if your not in that little capture circle and are not blobbed it has a really low chance to hit.

So which is deadlier?

Ost having the no reduced income, the ability to utilize Caches/Airdrops/Opels and being able to spam off maps with little to no risk and no fuel investment or OKW having a situational extremely game mode/map dependent unit that costs a fortune.

I have killed blobs better with both Stuka and Light Arty barrage more consistant then with the walking stuka.

I think this is a knee jerk thread.

US also struggles on the offmap department apart from Airborne, but that's more due to having only 3 commanders and the ''wonderful'' War Spoils system making so you could be stuck with those 3 commanders for months. Yet their mobile artillery, the Priest, is nowhere near as good, as well as doctrinal to boot, despite being fairly similar in price.

I'm comparing the Zu Fuss to its counterparts, the mobile artillerys. And in that comparison it is a very, very clear winner. Priest is OK, Panzerwerfer is RNG dependent but decent, Katyusha mostly sucks, walking Stuka is awesome. Sure, OKW units are supposed to perform well, but that doesn't mean their units cannot be OP. And if the ISU-152, a costly doctrinal direct fire unit, is considered overpowered for its ability to wipe squads, it seems to me that an indirect fire unit that costs much less yet can do the same is just wrong.

It's especially stupid against AT guns. I played a game where my opponent had a screen of them and used them well along with his T-34s. 3 barrages later, 1 gun decrewed, one captured and one outright destroyed. I also wiped a Maxim that retreated as soon as the rockets started falling and still got gibbed. I felt like the walking stuka handed me an easy win. Artillery being a blob and support weapon counter is one thing, invalidating them by its very presence is quite another.

If you keep your ears opened you can easly avoid the stuka. It's fine for the cost and the long cooldown considering the 2/3 income.

I think the problems come from teamgames and closed maps where it it difficult to catch the stuka off-guard or to hear it.