40 ammo for tank smoke?

It doesnt negate either one, if you have a unit spotting.

Without Smoke, Button is a guaranteed win if you have necessary AT support.
MT works even through Smoke. Remember there is a frigging plane watching the unit?

The guards squad using button is quite vulnerable and I could go on saying sending in a lone tank to get buttoned means you should lose it if the enemy uses button and brings in anti tank support. Are you saying smoke is not good enough to counter button?

It doesnt negate either one, if you have a unit spotting.

Without Smoke, Button is a guaranteed win if you have necessary AT support.
MT works even through Smoke. Remember there is a frigging plane watching the unit?

At Ara: Sorry, but your bias is beginning to become pretty obvious. You might want to tone that back a bit.

It is true. Decent soviets use muni for molotovs, AT nade, MT, LMG upgrade for guards, butoning, mines placing, mine sweaper, ZiS-3 barrage, precision strike and more. Both side have many munition usages. Soviets need muni too.

It is true. Decent soviets use muni for molotovs, AT nade, MT, LMG upgrade for guards, butoning, mines placing, mine sweaper, ZiS-3 barrage, precision strike and more. Both side have many munition usages. Soviets need muni too.

You completely missed my point, my friend.

The difference I was pointing out, is that Sov Commander abilities are largely Infantry callins for MP, whereas Ost Commander abilities are largely Muni based effects.

So whereas Sov can funnel use out of a Commander with MP, while using his Muni for conventional things, like what you listed, Ost has to spend Muni to use Commander abilities IN ADDITION to the conventional things, like you listed.

Do you see the difference I mean?
Its hardwired into the way Ost/Sov Commanders are different from each other.

You completely missed my point, my friend.

The difference I was pointing out, is that Sov Commander abilities are largely Infantry callins for MP, whereas Ost Commander abilities are largely Muni based effects.

So whereas Sov can funnel use out of a Commander with MP, while using his Muni for conventional things, like what you listed, Ost has to spend Muni to use Commander abilities IN ADDITION to the conventional things, like you listed.

Do you see the difference I mean?
Its hardwired into the way Ost/Sov Commanders are different from each other.

In this you have true.
But in game you must use muni as no tomorrow, if you want win. Dont matter on side.

I like this game. :-)

The guards squad using button is quite vulnerable and I could go on saying sending in a lone tank to get buttoned means you should lose it if the enemy uses button and brings in anti tank support. Are you saying smoke is not good enough to counter button?

First of all, Guard are a 6man 1.5 armor unit. They are far from vulnerable (though ofc extended attrition bleeds MP heavily afterwards).

Second of all, no, I agree a lone unsupported tank should be in trouble.I have never said otherwise, you are implying wrongly. I infact specifically said that with sufficient AT and Button, the armor should be very vulnerable if it lacks support.

Thirdly, no, I was specifically stating the means whereby Smoke can be neutralised by Sov play. If you have even one unit spotting on the other side of the Smoke, the Button will not be broken by it.

Fourthly, no, I was correcting Greeb saying that Smoke neutralises MT. By the obvious reasons that I shouldnt even separately state, that there is a frigging airplane making LoS to the vehicle. It also doesnt cancel MT, the MT stays on the vehicle through everything for the full 60s. There is no way to "cancel" its effect. Its there for 60s.

Fifthly, as other have also pointed out, Smoke can be neutralised with Attaxk Ground. Due to how projectile impact is processed in CoH2, if an armored vehicle Smokes (or moves out of direct LoS dor that matter), you can still hit it, because generally the range of AT is longer than that units actual LoS. They can fire FURTHER than they can actually see). By placing an Attack Ground BEHIND the spot where you expect the armor to be after Smoke, the projectile will impact on the hull of the vehicle, just like it would if hitting any other obstacle. So the protip here, is place itBEHIND where you expect it to be, and the shot will impact on it, on its way to the actual shot landing point. Ofc if it has managed to move to ghe right or the left before you react, then your shot will miss, but if the vehicle is anywhere in a direct line between where you fire from, to where you plant Attack Ground, it will hit the hull.

In this you have true.
But in game you must use muni as no tomorrow, if you want win. Dont matter on side.

I like this game. :-)

I agree, but generally as Sov I find I can barely spend Muni fast enough to prevent float, whereas as Oat I am constantly starved of Muni even to fulfill basic needs.

First of all, Guard are a 6man 1.5 armor unit. They are far from vulnerable (though ofc extended attrition bleeds MP heavily afterwards).

I said a guards squad using the button ability is quite vulnerable.
Surely you understand that I was not referring to their armor values but the inability to defend themselves while using the ability.
If you issue another command for the squad while buttoning a vehicle, for instance to move to cover, the button effect will be lost.

Second of all, no, I agree a lone unsupported tank should be in trouble.I have never said otherwise, you are implying wrongly. I infact specifically said that with sufficient AT and Button, the armor should be very vulnerable if it lacks support.

I re-read my original post and failed to realize what exactly was I implying. Can you please elaborate as I'm afraid you were actually implying about my nonexistent implying

I said a guards squad using the button ability is quite vulnerable.
Surely you understand that I was not referring to their armor values but the inability to defend themselves while using the ability.
If you issue another command for the squad while buttoning a vehicle, for instance to move to cover, the button effect will be lost.

Thats the price you pay for completely disabling a vehicle. As I pointed out, the 1.5 armor modifer protects against small arms, and the 6 man unit soaks the rest.

I recommend Buttoning from buildings rather than standing in direct line of fire. Even so, atleast the Armor you have Buttoned wont harm you.

I re-read my original post and failed to realize what exactly was I implying. Can you please elaborate as I'm afraid you were actually implying about my nonexistent implying

Yes, I can. Np, sir.
You concretely stated your position as if I had ever claimed that an overextended Amor should not be punished, which I had not. You implied that I had stated such a thing, which I had not. Infact I had concretely and literally said the exact opposite, that an overextended Armor should be punished, especially when Sov has brought enough AT to that engagement. Its not your own posts you should re-read, but mine, because you are arguing as if I had said things I have actually not, and which I have actually said the exact opposite of, and in which I am in agreement with you, though you present it as if I was not.

Okay thanks for clarifying

this place is becoming a joke, even a simple matter like this thread becomes a 30 page pile of crap.
smoke was fine at 30 muni, 40 might be a little too much but nothing outrageous.
/thread

What are you talking about, its a public forum, everyone has business in any of these conversations. If you guys wanted to have a 1v1 conversation why doesn't everyone just PM each other. Really, I've made maybe 15 posts on this site because most of the time people just bitch and moan at each other. All I was doing was trying to decrypt the fragment sentence that Turtle had made. Stop acting like a bunch of childish elitists that think you can own or lockdown a thread when a new poster enters a conversation on a public forum.

I think you misinterpreted my post, sorry

Well Jesus Christ, all I did was try and clarify if that's what Turtle meant or not, Nullist was right when he said that post made no sense, because if you read it properly, it's counter intuitive. So he must not have had that meaning, it takes a completely unemphatic and narcissistic person to not be able to draw a simple line to deduce what Turles post could have possibly meant.

I think you misinterpreted my post, sorry

If you were being sarcastic then I apologize, it just pissed me off for a second there that after being pushed to side by Nullists jackass post and then I read yours I completely lost faith in this community for a minute.

If you were being sarcastic then I apologize, it just pissed me off for a second there that after being pushed to side by Nullists jackass post and then I read yours I completely lost faith in this community for a minute.

No problems it happens. Buckethead is cool