Don't SVTs have 0.5 moving accuracy?
Check total squad DPS instead of the DPS of 1 weapon.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Don't SVTs have 0.5 moving accuracy?
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If you could explain how that is related to the broader topic of OKW and Pfusies, and why Penals and Pfusies should be comparable, that would be great.
Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2
It's the cancerous G43 moving accuracy that needs to go. You can just blob 4 pfusilier squads and right click opponent's cutoff and they'll kill everyone on their way there without any further input. Even worse is that G43s have long range damage which is slightly better than their kar98s. It's an a-move blob that can frontally decrew a 50 cal from long range and easily dodges the traditional blob counters like Scotts/Rocket arty.
Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2
I am simply responding to specific post that you might want to read again.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I read it, nothing is related to Penals. Please stay on topic.
Posts: 293
like what weakness?
their biggest weakness is badly placed tech structures that allow for allied players to destroy them and hinder the OKW player significantly. arty spam should be the go to tool for any offensive OKW hq placement
Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2
Nothing related between PF and KT either.
Now do you agree that Penal squad has similar far moving DPS with more expansive PF squad or not?
In your opinion is it "the cancerous G43 moving accuracy that needs to go" while the SVT moving accuracy is fine?
Posts: 556
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
All threads tend to broaden in their topic over time. PFs can at least synzergize with the KT and do not come with all of the other burden that Penals come with. Those two squads are barely comparable, so there is no reason to bring them up and compare them, period. Penals are just tossed in with no relation nor context given at all.
Again, there is not much sense in comparing these squads in the first place, even disregarding the fact that Fusiliers come with way more concentrated firepower.
I do not agree regarding your point on moving accuracy because it is simply wrong.
The G43 loses little DPS on the move. I have not seen all weapons and their DPS curves, but it is the lowest I have seen so far. With the G43 being allround better than the K98, this means it is better on the move than a stationary K98. This is straight up bad weapon design, only barely hidden by the fact of the mixed weapon squad.
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
The issue about okw in team mode is that the faction is overstat'd with many units and VERY powerful abilities in tandem:
KT + lefh
KT + pak-43 + LEFH
KT + LEFH + extreme plane loiter
KT + sturmtiger
KT + offmap "delete frontline" artillery
KT + rocket arty
Posts: 1197
Preach. Like I TOTALLY get people who say that OKW isn't as OP as you make it out to be. I play plenty of OKW and it doesn't feel like a complete cake walk ever. BUT I 100% believe it's the idiot casual player's favorite faction. It's just way too easy to crutch on stupid stuff with minimal skill
1. A Move Raketens that just retreat after sniping your paper mediums and TDs.
2. Obers that are the biggest PITA once they are vetted.
3. Pinpoint accurate Rocket Arty
4. Best stock medium that gets great scatter with vet and best medium armor so RNG can fuck you over even when you play well if you get anything other than a TD
5. Obnoxious FLak Truck for "free" area denial and support weapon protector/ Truck City BS. Bonus for "free AA platform"! Fuck your offmaps! Side tech for your own AA or hamstring your build to fit it in to counter Sector Assault.
6. Oh you punished the Risk/Reward of Flak Truck and Killed it? Hahaha Stall for KT is next.
7. KT that's otherwise balanced but completely busted with Spearhead and/or Panzer Commander
Bonus Round Obnoxious Doctrinal Stuff that's omni-present
1. Fusies! Like Volks but better **Disclaimer you have to stomach getting pushed around before upgrades** then Holy Shit Minimal micro time! Bonus Vision! Great moving Accuracy so you can blob move without giving a shit. Extra Bonus for being in Grand Assault which is all around a great commander and allows for KT/Spearhead abuse!
2. Jaegers. Yay! Map Hack Vision and their Snipes more or less single handedly wrecks UKF. Extra Bonus for being in Overwatch.
3. Overwatch! Yay, Jaegers and you completely counter almost everything else with the most OP Offmap in the game **disclaimer, it's slightly more expensive after the last patch... nobody cares!** Hope you have AA! Oh wait it's 1v1 and it's hard to fit AA into your build? Well fuck you! Better hope they can't stockpile Munis! Extra bonus for team games because you get Howie too! Better hope you have an offmap and didn't pick a different commander to deal with the other OKW crutches.
Again. I totally get it. OKW isn't OP but OMG. It is easily the the one faction that I feel like I have to work harder to beat players with inferior micro/skill.
/endrant
TLR KT isn't really that OP aside from Spearhead abuse but dear god KT in the greater context of OKW can be annoying as hell and the straw that breaks Allies back.
Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2
These squad are very much comparable since they have the exact same role. An alternative mainline infatry that can upgrade with AT.
But I did not compare these units so I am not sure why you are acting as if I did.
I have simply pointed out that a Penal squad and PF have similar moving DPS.
Only that was not my point, I did not compare the G43 with SVT because that is simply misleading since only 3 entities carry the G43.
I did however compared the PF squad and Penal squad DPS on the move and they are about the same so the theory that a PF squad has abnormally high moving DPS does not really hold much water.
KT + Raketen. I've always wondered why the faction having the strongest tanks (P4j/Panther/Tiger/KT) and superior light tank hunter (Puma) is also the faction having the cheapest and most resilient atgun in the game. If anything the raketen should be by far the shittiest atgun available like having no more than the M-42 AT capacity and only able to poke medium tanks in general.
The modding team managed to gives OKW so much AT power at every stage of the game without any regards for balance. Shrek on Sturm, Raketen that get 5 men and retreat button, Puma, P4J being buffed to heaven so its simply superior to all other stock tanks, Panther, KT, jagpanther and then the late Tiger because why not.
OKW has been the special snowflake of the game for team game since the modding team took over, I wonder why.
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
All of these units are pretty in line with their cost. It's not like you'd get the P4J for the price of the Ostheer P4 or a Sherman. It also costs more population, so you can fit less units. That's balancing done right, I guess.
The faction definitely has some problems, such as MP inefficiencies unless you manage to transition to Obers, which in turn removes your snares, as well as their split tech system which at least for the first 20 minutes if not the whole game leaves you without proper healing or sub-par repair abilities.
Posts: 1197
The issue about okw in team mode is that the faction is overstat'd with many units and VERY powerful abilities in tandem:
KT + lefh
KT + pak-43 + LEFH
KT + LEFH + extreme plane loiter
KT + sturmtiger
KT + offmap "delete frontline" artillery
KT + rocket arty
Jagdtiger + delete frontline artillery + cover entire area in smoke
Sturm officer (support unit with OBER models) + Panzerfusiliers (S tier infantry with the best move accuracy in the game on upgrade) = forces retreat on machine guns and the defense falls apart, or guarantees to outnumber defenders
Panzerfusiliers + stuka smoke drops = cover essentially the entire enemy defense in a fast and quite large smoke drop, making frontal blob assaults significantly easier (also fuck MG based defense, amirite?)
the classic raketen blob a-move and insta retreat tactic that is frequent in 3v3
Elite armor: panzer commander gives free vision and hard counters AT guns, heat shells make your tanks decimate enemy armor, and an early game LV harass tool. I am really understating how op heat shells are but whatever
Obers give way to strong late game infantry
Jaeger light infantry give way to "what the fuck how did my squad lose a model on a single volley hit"
KT + jagdpanzer IV/70 to counter enemy TDs or opposing armor
kubelwagen gives way to a cheap map hack (also an annoying as FUCK harass tool, its so speedy its rather easy to get it to vet 5)
pfus are really good but there's a plethora of tools that are just as good or better in certain situations , okw might be the most complete faction of WFA because they really don't lack anything
Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2
Cost =! balance but I didn't say they weren't balanced, I said that the raketen costing 270mp and having free 5men squad + free retreat button + free vet1 camo + having no problem dealing with medium tanks is a problem when associated with said tanks and ultimately the KT, because its dirt cheap and resilient , even if said tanks are with their correct price tag.
What make the KT invincible and OKW a problematic faction as a whole isn't only the KT itself, its also the fact that OKW has to be "balanced" without it which mean the faction doesn't suffer if you don't use it. Now you have faction that can definitively win without the KT having it as a the cherry on top of the cake. That's make a really big cherry able to reverse the game by its mere presence.
In few words, what is balance without the KT becomes inbalanced with the KT simply because it is a force multiplier for anything around it for a resonable cost since its cost has to be reasonable to be balance.
It was statwise balanced before because TDs were actually countering it as they must. It is not today because of the huge amount of RNG their pen nerf brought in the game for the sake of few people enjoying their 1 army's unit.
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Are you now only relating to the Raketen or also the P4/Panther/... that you named for your argument?
No, that is not how it works, otherwise all doctrinal units were OP by definition, because the faction has to work without it as well. You're phrasing it as if you could have a normal 100 pop build as OKW and then just buy the KT on top.
The KT - like every other unit - comes with opportunity costs due to their price and POP. If you buy it, you can't get something else. Getting a heavy like the KT concentrates a huge chunk of your population and resources into one unit. You can't get a P4, Panther or whatever other unit anymore, because this population is blocked already. Therefore, you can be exploited. That's how balance at the very basic level works, and overall that's working well in OKW.
The spearhead ability in the other hand - not so much. You're rarely affected by the 90° lock anyway in team games. 45° would be more interesting, if we wanted to keep the mechanics the same.
Are you in the last part referring to the vet nerf on TDs? That created a difference of about 6-7% pen chance. So yes, noticable, but TDs were not really what you'd call reliable against the KT even before.
122 | |||||
22 | |||||
2 | |||||
1 | |||||
62 | |||||
58 | |||||
12 | |||||
10 | |||||
1 | |||||
1 |