At the end the modding team didn’t balance the game.

Surrender, quit, or yes sometimes fight it out

Never once have i even considered trying to kill my tm8s base, no matter how bad they are

U should rly stop trying to make that seem normal. ITs pathetic, theres a reason u get banned for it

liar

also, it's extremely funny If I am being honest. I am not trying to make it seem normal. For me, it's the funniest thing about COH2, just like Micspamming is the funniest thing about Source games (TF2, GMOD, CSGO).

My funniest ever memory of COH2 in all these years is a 3v3 I was playing and one guy had Chinese name and my teammate without even starting the game started spamming Raketens in the Chinese guy's base, whilst shouting racial profanities in the general chat, and inviting me to do the same. I was ready to quit when I realized that it was kinda fun. And to top it off, the other guy after destroying his base started to draw """symbols""" using barbed wire. In all this time the poor chinese guy kept trying to play like normal, having pios repair his base etc. Funniest thing I have ever lived in gaming. I still laugh now writing about it for sure.

liar

Whos making ad hominems now bub? Ur self-owns are piling up here lol

Whos making ad hominems now bub? Ur self-owns are piling up here lol

Alright mate let's call it a day I am not the arguing too much type of guy. It was a nice exchange.

Have a good one.

It was a nice exchange.

Have a good one.

Good fun indeed. When I first started I rekt a couple bases myself. I cant remember why? Probably if someone starts being toxic as hell I would rekt their base.

You know those noobs that rudely suck at the game but start pinging everyone else after they lose all their army. They are quiet when they are playing then retreat their whole army back to base and start pinging everyone like they are some great general. When they are the worst player by far, not even close. That is a special breed of monkey that makes me long for a vote to kick some one from the game. Didn't vCoh have this?

What would you do, especially when the playtime you have is limited?

You know killing someone's base takes longer than quitting, right?

I am genuinely curious what motivates someone to that point. Just leave. Or stop playing with randoms

You know killing someone's base takes longer than quitting, right?

Multiplayer games need some way to police themselves.

Multiplayer games need some way to police themselves.

Hey I fully agree that MM could use some cleaning. But saying that he basekills because "my playtime is limited" is an... interesting take

I hate ping spammers as much as anyone. Even if they're a decent player, I don't wanna fucking hear that thing every 30 seconds

Never have teamkilled. Not worth it on any level. Thousands of matches in vCoh and this and the thought just doesn't even come to mind... easier to just leave.

You know killing someone's base takes longer than quitting, right?

I am genuinely curious what motivates someone to that point. Just leave. Or stop playing with randoms

Simple.

Laughter relieves anxiety. Also, raging your sucky teammate is always a huge plus.

I am not talking about people that genuinely try, but braindead ape morons who lost 80% of their forces and the game is clearly lost.

I have been playing OKW since its release.

STurmtiger was never as bad as this forum claims to have been, and never was "the gold standard" of unbalancing.

It was just intimidating because 95% people here play only with superupgraded blobs and 0 depth strategy. Then sure, Sturmtiger can wreck you badly. Other than that, it's a literal case mate which can only shoot once and then it must reload for 30+ secs. 1 Medium tank, 1 ATG + 2 snares is all it takes to go down the gutter. Also, its cost makes you skip the P4J, which many times is wrong.

And to further prove my point: what did balance team did to """fix""" Sturmtiger? They made it just a tad costlier and moved it a tad in CP (so as to give the allies some time to get an ATG I suppose) and also disallowed it to upgrade and throw gren. Not a single stat change.

You know that the Sturmtiger dominated the game a few months back? Like you would literally win every game when you had it in the game and didn't completely suck? You could fire out of the fog of war, it had a stupid one-click infantry counter, ez self-repair and was nearly unkillable while only costing 165 fuel?

You know that the Sturmtiger dominated the game a few months back? Like you would literally win every game when you had it in the game and didn't completely suck? You could fire out of the fog of war, it had a stupid one-click infantry counter, ez self-repair and was nearly unkillable while only costing 165 fuel?

Its not that ST was nerfed, its the fact that AVRE was buffed in the same patch with ST nerf. This was pretty much an absurd.

AVRE and ST are literally identical units (premise of which community generally arent really enjoy).

Their stats are asymmetrical but in the end they are giving the same result. For example ST has more HP since armor is pointless against allies TD, while AVRE has less HP but more armor, pretty much almost every single stat works like this for them. AVRE max speed is slower but it reaches it faster, ST is vise versa and so on.

Difference being ST has bigger AOE (which hardly means anything since you still need direct hits to wipe) for the cost of manual reaload and lack of turret. AVRE has smaller AOE as a price for having turret and auto-reload.

But point is being, why ST price and CP was increased (alongside deserved stats nerfs) while AVRE remained at the same price\CP and got a huge buff via projectile fix which made ST OP in a first place. Multiple balance patches and human time spent, to recreate old balance again where ST is pointless most of the time, while AVRE is superior in every single way considering the role of the unit. Yet, they become even more stronger and frustrating to play against, because both now have projectile fix.

This situation pretty much illustrates one of the core problems balance team had imo, which resulted in fuck ups people like to bring into the disscussion.

Its not that ST was nerfed, its the fact that AVRE was buffed in the same patch with ST nerf. This was pretty much an absurd.

AVRE and ST are literally identical units (premise of which community generally arent really enjoy).

Their stats are asymmetrical but in the end they are giving the same result. For example ST has more HP since armor is pointless against allies TD, while AVRE has less HP but more armor, pretty much almost every single stat works like this for them. AVRE max speed is slower but it reaches it faster, ST is vise versa and so on.

Difference being ST has bigger AOE (which hardly means anything since you still need direct hits to wipe) for the cost of manual reaload and lack of turret. AVRE has smaller AOE as a price for having turret and auto-reload.

But point is being, why ST price and CP was increased (alongside deserved stats nerfs) while AVRE remained at the same price\CP and got a huge buff via projectile fix which made ST OP in a first place. Multiple balance patches and human time spent, to recreate old balance again where ST is pointless most of the time, while AVRE is superior in every single way considering the role of the unit. Yet, they become even more stronger and frustrating to play against, because both now have projectile fix.

This situation pretty much illustrates one of the core problems balance team had imo, which resulted in fuck ups people like to bring into the disscussion.

AVRE is in a lackluster commander and in a faction that is pretty fu****g bad in teamgames (where such heavies are not pointless). I agree that they should be priced the same, both in CP and in fuel/MP.
I seldom see AVRE in teamgames, even when pulled off correctly, it just becomes a target for Panthers/JP4s for veterancy. ST on the other hand, has obers to fend off any infantry assaults, retreating raketen to fend off TDs and a single JP4 can deny up to two TDs if well placed, with it's low size and high armor. Basically meaning that a ST can just sit and protect a VP/fuel while not being in the danger of a flank (eg, middle indestructible sightblocker on Redball). AVRE is harder to defend generally, being in such a faction/commander.

What they should have done is, aside from making both asymmetrically-identical (if that makes sense; same units but different pros/cons):
1) Sturmtiger reload decrew if shot -> pop cost to 23 (having 2 sturmtigers is half your army at this point)
2) both AVRE and ST grind to a halt during reload (destroyed engine speed) -> more micro
3) Sturmtiger is mutually exclusive with KT
4) I'm not sure of AVRE's veterancy bonuses, but both of those should not have sight,range larger than 35, not even with veterancy. Especially not for the HP/armour they sport. Heck, Sturmtiger needs 9 penetrating shots to kill. So counting in the misses and the bounces, you need about a minute to kill it with even 2 TDs (which take away a lot of AI power in brits and USF, especially vs obers). It's absurd

Difference being ST has bigger AOE (which hardly means anything since you still need direct hits to wipe) for the cost of manual reaload and lack of turret. AVRE has smaller AOE as a price for having turret and auto-reload.

Just picking out this one point:
The far AoE range is super strong.
The AVRE forces you to predict the retreat path almost perfectly, if a model is only a tiny bit outside of the 8 meter radius it does not get damaged at all. The ST allows for way worse path prediction. It kills a model with half 44 HP up to 14 meters radius. So even if you misjudged the retreat path or timing, you have a good chance of wiping the squad if it has been damaged before by small arms fire, or the other way around: If you have a squad nearby, it this one has a good chance of killing off the remaining model(s).
In team games this is basically always the case since the unit density is super high. No ST/AVRE operates on its own.

AVRE is in a lackluster commander and in a faction that is pretty fu****g bad in teamgames (where such heavies are not pointless). I agree that they should be priced the same, both in CP and in fuel/MP.
I seldom see AVRE in teamgames, even when pulled off correctly, it just becomes a target for Panthers/JP4s for veterancy. ST on the other hand, has obers to fend off any infantry assaults, retreating raketen to fend off TDs and a single JP4 can deny up to two TDs if well placed, with it's low size and high armor. Basically meaning that a ST can just sit and protect a VP/fuel while not being in the danger of a flank (eg, middle indestructible sightblocker on Redball). AVRE is harder to defend generally, being in such a faction/commander.

Royal engineer Regiment is not lackluster commander. Actually the commander is in mid preference in load out across all modes which is good position.

What they should have done is, aside from making both asymmetrically-identical (if that makes sense; same units but different pros/cons):
1) Sturmtiger reload decrew if shot -> pop cost to 23 (having 2 sturmtigers is half your army at this point)

The decrew mechanism is bad because it allow one to donate the vehicle to other players in teamgames something that increasing the pop will not fix. Removing the decrew was a good change.

2) both AVRE and ST grind to a halt during reload (destroyed engine speed) -> more micro
3) Sturmtiger is mutually exclusive with KT

ST would have to be move to another commander in this case.

4) I'm not sure of AVRE's veterancy bonuses, but both of those should not have sight,range larger than 35, not even with veterancy. Especially not for the HP/armour they sport. Heck, Sturmtiger needs 9 penetrating shots to kill. So counting in the misses and the bounces, you need about a minute to kill it with even 2 TDs (which take away a lot of AI power in brits and USF, especially vs obers). It's absurd

Have you tested the claim that 2 TDs need a minute to kill ST or this another imaginary claim like the one about KT's Pintle in spearhead move suppressing 360 better than HMG-42.

AVRE is in a lackluster commander and in a faction that is pretty fu****g bad in teamgames (where such heavies are not pointless). I agree that they should be priced the same, both in CP and in fuel/MP.
I seldom see AVRE in teamgames, even when pulled off correctly, it just becomes a target for Panthers/JP4s for veterancy. ST on the other hand, has obers to fend off any infantry assaults, retreating raketen to fend off TDs and a single JP4 can deny up to two TDs if well placed, with it's low size and high armor. Basically meaning that a ST can just sit and protect a VP/fuel while not being in the danger of a flank (eg, middle indestructible sightblocker on Redball). AVRE is harder to defend generally, being in such a faction/commander.

What they should have done is, aside from making both asymmetrically-identical (if that makes sense; same units but different pros/cons):
1) Sturmtiger reload decrew if shot -> pop cost to 23 (having 2 sturmtigers is half your army at this point)
2) both AVRE and ST grind to a halt during reload (destroyed engine speed) -> more micro
3) Sturmtiger is mutually exclusive with KT
4) I'm not sure of AVRE's veterancy bonuses, but both of those should not have sight,range larger than 35, not even with veterancy. Especially not for the HP/armour they sport. Heck, Sturmtiger needs 9 penetrating shots to kill. So counting in the misses and the bounces, you need about a minute to kill it with even 2 TDs (which take away a lot of AI power in brits and USF, especially vs obers). It's absurd

WTF!
I love this commander!
People saying SHITTIGER is better than AVRE AHAHAHAHAHAH!
Only braindead people get shot by SHITTIGER because of slow aim to fire.
Aim to fire is the biggest difference between them.
AVRE judgement of shot is not so bad, SHITTIGER is so slow you need mental handicap opponent.
SHITTIGER could always fire through fog of war. I don't know why it became so spammed in past year.

You know that the Sturmtiger dominated the game a few months back? Like you would literally win every game when you had it in the game and didn't completely suck? You could fire out of the fog of war, it had a stupid one-click infantry counter, ez self-repair and was nearly unkillable while only costing 165 fuel?

Again with that bullshit.

Take the last patch for ST: they added 1cp to its reqs, some fuel and removed its ability to self repair and throw grens at the same time. I also think they removed like 5 vision. They did NOTHING to the base stats YET you claim it dominated the game BEFORE THE LAST PATCH.

It's absurd, and a placebo. Unless you think allies can get a TD in the 3 extra minutes that OKW players now need more to get it.

Just picking out this one point:
The far AoE range is super strong.
The AVRE forces you to predict the retreat path almost perfectly, if a model is only a tiny bit outside of the 8 meter radius it does not get damaged at all. The ST allows for way worse path prediction. It kills a model with half 44 HP up to 14 meters radius. So even if you misjudged the retreat path or timing, you have a good chance of wiping the squad if it has been damaged before by small arms fire, or the other way around: If you have a squad nearby, it this one has a good chance of killing off the remaining model(s).
In team games this is basically always the case since the unit density is super high. No ST/AVRE operates on its own.

On paper yes, ST AOE technically much better, but the main problem is, even considering that it has better chances at wiping retreating units, ST still need much more pre-positioning to be able to roll in, unload and roll out.

Not to mention that, support weapons like AT guns cant soft-retreat from AVRE aswell, unless pre-spotted and retreating support weapons have very big chance to be wiped as well. Also, unless its volks\PFs\Ostts all squad models will be in kill radius of the AVRE anyway.

Objectively ST AOE provides better blob control, but its still imo very debatable if its bigger AOE actually that much powerful and impactful.

But if we only speak about scenario where ST rolled in, successfully shot and rolled out, ignoring everything what comes before it, then yes its AOE provides much more.

But if we only speak about scenario where ST rolled in, successfully shot and rolled out, ignoring everything what comes before it, then yes its AOE provides much more.

But that's rarely the case in COH2 so in general any kind of one sided discussion should not stand.

The endgame (I am agreeing with you) is that these units have been made pretty much equal because a vocal minority got very very butthurt from the ST's perceived performance.

On paper yes, ST AOE technically much better, but the main problem is, even considering that it has better chances at wiping retreating units, ST still need much more pre-positioning to be able to roll in, unload and roll out.

The main mode for both units is to already align with their target before moving into the fight, either because you have to (ST) or because you don't want to waste another 1-2 seconds with turret rotation (AVRE). The ST has some downsides and feels more clunky, but my point was not a general comparison of the usefulness of the two units, my point was really specifically to your point saying that the long AoE damage does not matter.

Not to mention that, support weapons like AT guns cant soft-retreat from AVRE aswell, unless pre-spotted and retreating support weapons have very big chance to be wiped as well. Also, unless its volks\PFs\Ostts all squad models will be in kill radius of the AVRE anyway.

Objectively ST AOE provides better blob control, but its still imo very debatable if its bigger AOE actually that much powerful and impactful.

But if we only speak about scenario where ST rolled in, successfully shot and rolled out, ignoring everything what comes before it, then yes its AOE provides much more.

I don't know about ATG and MG squad spacing, but normal infantry squads have models that are easily 3-4 meters from the center. So even if the attacker perfectly aims at the center of the squad, moving 3-4 meters will make sure that at least the squad as a whole survives for both vehicles.
That's why I am saying that the longer range AoE of the ST actually matters. Because many squads don't consist of 100% healthy members. The ST can consistently hit all members of a squad, dealing 44 damage as a minimum (unless my info is wrong). If only 2 members survive after the shot, the outcome is heavily different: Against the AVRE, they will likely get not damaged at all. So even if they were pre-damaged with ~20 damage each, they still retreat with the remaining 120 in total and are decently hard to kill by the supporting infantry. Against the ST, even if they were full health before, their total health will amount to 72 when full health or 32 if already damaged. That's way easier to wipe.

Now, the prime targets of both are not main line infantry but ATGs and MGs, and I will neglect all the tiny differences for several factions here. Both of these are definitely easier to hit, nevertheless it is still possible to frequently dodge the deadly zone of both the AVRE and ST. But the AVRE is almost literally a coin toss: Either you kill a model, or it does not get damaged. There is almost nothing in between. A dodging model does not get damaged, and if that model has decent HP the squad might make it out. The ST helps a lot, because even dodging the central blast will bring the HP heavily down.

Just to make it clear: I don't am not debating if one unit is better than the other, I am debating your point claiming that the far AoE did not matter.
It indeed did not matter if there was no support on the field, but it matters a lot if there is even only 1 infantry squad supporting the push.

On paper yes, ST AOE technically much better, but the main problem is, even considering that it has better chances at wiping retreating units, ST still need much more pre-positioning to be able to roll in, unload and roll out.

Not to mention that, support weapons like AT guns cant soft-retreat from AVRE aswell, unless pre-spotted and retreating support weapons have very big chance to be wiped as well. Also, unless its volks\PFs\Ostts all squad models will be in kill radius of the AVRE anyway.

Objectively ST AOE provides better blob control, but its still imo very debatable if its bigger AOE actually that much powerful and impactful.

But if we only speak about scenario where ST rolled in, successfully shot and rolled out, ignoring everything what comes before it, then yes its AOE provides much more.

Not really. Maps that are hard on the ST are maps like General Mud (A brilliant map), where there are a lot of assaulting paths. Most 3v3 maps, you use the ST with a couple of buttons.
Drive forward -> click boom -> reverse -> wait for reload.
Heck, I remember on winnekendonk where it took me and my teammate I think 2 full minutes of extremely micro intensive flanks and assaults to kill one ST. The biggest problem was the psychological one. Is it ready to fire again?
I dived with 2 jacksons and rifles and started barraging with pak howis. There was one bounce but about 5 misses in total between the jacksons and the allies T34s bounced or missed pretty much every shot on the run. After all was said and done, that was full two minutes of trying to kill one sturmtiger that literally fired and just reversed back behind the treeline on the bottom winnekendonk fuel (north-eastern).

So on some maps, maneuvering the ST will be difficult, even for a good player, on most maps, it's a piece of cake. Even more so because you know it can take a punch. You know that TDs are needed to penetrate, and even then there can be misses. Last but not least, in teamgames, the unit density is high, so chances are you'll get counter flanked trying to kill the ST.
On paper, killing a ST is easy. Oh it has only 220 armour, TDs will penetrate 95% of time... but yeah, TDs need constant sight, need not miss and you need to deal with all the other sh** around the ST.
Well unless you're a certain top10 OKW player that drove the ST solo, unsupported over the frozen river on Rhzev Winter and cursed the RNG when I fired one shot at it.


And it is, yeah. It's not debatable. If you've played against a ST and/or played with AVRE, you'd notice the difference. AVRE ONLY if it lands the shot, it's good night. ST even if it doesn't land it close to perfect, it's good night or close to it. Thank fu** that the germans didn't make it with a turret, because 80 years later you'd get a turreted sturmtiger that shoots nukes.