Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

they said

Panzerfusiliers
We are reverting the changes to Panzerfusiliers to prevent them from completely overshadowing Volksgrenadiers, particularly in team games.

Kar98k and G43 weapon changes reverted
Cost changes reverted

>We are reverting the changes to Panzerfusiliers

im quite sure it means all changes

If they don't want fusiliers to "overshadow volks", why the fuck would they give them back their weapon slot? When volks upgrade literally takes up 2??? That makes zero sense

and they are powerful enough cause u must have done some testes right i mean u are not pulling all this out of your ass cause it's "muh opinion" right ?

I've done tests, I've used them in game, I've played against them

i mean why don't u tell me their power since u must know it quite well, they are powerful enough right ? What do they beat ? Cause at least to me it seems they in power are worse than penal
btw please dont' spin it again with utility u just said power, don't switch thing to make them more confusing

Can you try to stop being a troll for 1 post? Just one? It's their combination of power and utility, and you know that. You know damn well they are a versatile squad, that its literally their fucking design dude. Give me a break, Jesus Christ

you are contradicting yourself and responding your own question

"why people use PF in team game ?"

"volks are weak and people prefer the late game so they use PF, PF don't need a damn thing at all"

Point out exactly where I asked that question? I didn't, because I'm not at all confused about why people use fusiliers. You have completely lost your mind dude, your arguing against things I never said or even thought about

Like I would love your explanation on how saying volks need help contradicts saying fusiliers don't... That's literally the opposite of a contradiction

You want me to open cheat command and post screens of the result I got (post revert)? They absolutely get shredded by 1 bar rifleman even at 35 range
Just 1 out of 6 panzerfusiliers squad won at 3 models left

Please do, cause I'm very curious about your definition of the word "shredded"

I expect rifles to win, idk about shred

Why is it so hard for you to understand that OKW is not USF nor soviets, but its a 3rd, completely different faction with completely different units, completely different internal balance and completely different unit interactions?

Agreed, we should remove T-34/85, IS2, Pershing, 76mm Sherman, Osttruppen, Guards, Shocks, KV1, KV2,...
What do the Soviets need KV1 for, they aren't OKW, they are supposed to use t34

Are PFs a considerable upgrade to volks in late game? Because their whole point is to be considrable upgrade to volks in late game.

Yes or no?

No, you are shooting yourself in the foot and it's not worth in the slightest, which is why nobody uses them EVER in tournaments

Agreed, we should remove T-34/85, IS2, Pershing, 76mm Sherman, Osttruppen, Guards, Shocks, KV1, KV2,...
What do the Soviets need KV1 for, they aren't OKW, they are supposed to use t34


No, you are shooting yourself in the foot and it's not worth in the slightest, which is why nobody uses them EVER in tournaments

And we're done here.
I'm not arguing a baby who throws tantrums like that when its impossible to come up with reasonable counter argument instead of admitting to being wrong.

If they don't want fusiliers to "overshadow volks", why the fuck would they give them back their weapon slot? When volks upgrade literally takes up 2??? That makes zero sense

that was a changed that was made when they buffed the close range dps as a draw back, it seems obvious if u make and buff and a nerf to a unit when u revert the changes u would revert both
btw we should make them a clone to volks insated by your logic ? what's the point of the weak

I've done tests, I've used them in game, I've played against them

so from your ass ? ok

u know someone like penal battalion played the game too he said make 1 men squad rifle should we listen to him ? i mean he said "i used them in game" what's more to prove his point ? we all know looking at stats and doing test is for brainless people right ?

Can you try to stop being a troll for 1 post? Just one? It's their combination of power and utility, and you know that. You know damn well they are a versatile squad, that it literally their fucking design dude. Give me a break, Jesus Christ

5 sight range, too much utility bro you were talking about the upgrade right ? it's 5 sight range of utilty please either you focus on the upgrade or the unit as whole u don't get to chery pick what u want for argument’s sake, u refred as the upgarde having woth 2 weapon slot adn 90 mun so the bonuses are 3 g43 whicha re weaker than green g43 1 more man and 5 sight range where is the versatility of the upgrade itslef other than the 5 sight range ? or are u saying we should count the base cost of the squad for their ability which you are alredy paying more than other squad (270mp and 25 mp)

im not being a troll i would like u to chose if u want to discuss the squad a whole or the upgrade itself, cause until now u cherry picked what u wanted, make your point but do it without cherry picking

Point out exactly where I asked that question? I didn't, because I'm not at all confused about why people use fusiliers. You have completely lost your mind dude, your arguing against things I never said or even thought about

u said that panzerfusilier are spammed in team game, and tried to find a reason that u already had the answer too that was what i pointing out

by your own word volks are weak so people are using PF

no need more convoluted ideas

there is no need to touch PF

btw since u are not willingly to do some tests or check stats can u post your replays of PF spam so we can at least check that or are we supposed to just believe like some flat earth cult ?

that was a changed that was made when they buffed the close range dps as a draw back, it seems obvious if u make and buff and a nerf to a unit when u revert the changes u would revert both
btw we should make them a clone to volks insated by your logic ? what's the point of the weak

Where the fuck are you getting this stuff from? Can you stop making up random shit that has nothing to do with what I'm saying?

so from your ass ? ok


u know someone like penal battalion played the game too he said make 1 men squad rifle should we listen to him ? i mean he said "i used them in game" what's more to prove his point ? we all know looking at stats and doing test is for brainless people right ?

Have I said anything like this? Have I said nerf fusiliers at all? Have I said anything even remotely close to this nonsense your whining about? No. I just said they don't need to pick up a weapon after the upgrade, because it's good enough as is. Especially if stg volks is 2 weapon slots. If anything give volks a weapon slot back and keep g43s as 2

5 sight range, too much utility bro you were talking about the upgrade right ? it's 5 sight range of utilty please either you focus on the upgrade or the unit as whole u don't get to chery pick what u want for argument’s sake, u refred as the upgarde having woth 2 weapon slot adn 90 mun so the bonuses are 3 g43 whicha re weaker than green g43 1 more man and 5 sight range where is the versatility of the upgrade itslef other than the 5 sight range ? or are u saying we should count the base cost of the squad for their ability which you are alredy paying more than other squad (270mp and 25 mp)

I was talking about the utility of the whole squad. I know this is an international forum but you seriously need to try to read/write better. This is getting out of hand

im not being a troll i would like u to chose if u want to discuss the squad a whole or the upgrade itself, cause until now u cherry picked what u wanted, make your point but do it without cherry picking

You know upgrades are personalized for squads right? I'm not even sure what your trying to say here. The upgrade and the squad are linked. Thats not cherrypicking, it's just talking about how the game works

Can you seperate the lmg42 upgrade from grens? No, it's specifically designed for them. The lmg42 would be OP on almost any other squad besides grens

u said that panzerfusilier are spammed in team game, and tried to find a reason that u already had the answer too that was what i pointing out

by your own word volks are weak so people are using PF

no need more convoluted ideas

there is no need to touch PF

btw since u are not willingly to do some tests or check stats can u post your replays of PF spam so we can at least check that or are we supposed to just believe like some flat earth cult ?

I have not used the word spam once. Stop making shit up to argue against

I expect rifles to win, idk about shred

They win even in THE BEST possible range for Panzerfusiliers, and that's just one bar, that also costs less than G43

And we're done here.
I'm not arguing a baby who throws tantrums like that when its impossible to come up with reasonable counter argument instead of admitting to being wrong.

That's no tantrum, I used the exact argument you have made.
If OKW shouldn't have a mainline that competes with allied infantry, no matter the cost, then there's no reasom for the KV1 to have the upper hand against a Panzer 4, no matter the cost

They win even in THE BEST possible range for Panzerfusiliers

Why shouldn't they? Riflemen are best mainline in the game by far

Of course the upgrade costs more. It doesn't only provide g43s

Why shouldn't they?

Because they shouldn't?
So that supposed extra power that should make up for shitty panzerfussi early game is just bullshit?

regarding pfussies, thers 4 guys arguing with each other and i havent seen every post so correct me if im wrong.

2 of you are comparing pfussis to volks, and in that context pfussies are fine whuich i agree with (weaker then volks early but better late game)

However, the moment you compare them to penals and RM, pfussies become not so good. Now the balance team have specifally compared them to volks and not allied inf, so they are balanaced agaisnt volks, not penals or riflemen.

But pfussies do suck in the early game but idk how you can buff them without making them OP. and personally when it does come to pfussies vs allied inf, you really should be mixing obers with your pfussies to be able to effectively fight off allied inf, and i dont see a problem with that

Because they shouldn't?
So that supposed extra power that should make up for shitty panzerfussi early game is just bullshit?

It's only shitty if you build straight fusiliers and nothing else. If you mix them in with volks, your opening will be fine

The problem is what to do with those volks mid-late. Which is a volks problem

regarding pfussies, thers 4 guys arguing with each other and i havent seen every post so correct me if im wrong.

2 of you are comparing pfussis to volks, and in that context pfussies are fine whuich i agree with (weaker then volks early but better late game)

However, the moment you compare them to penals and RM, pfussies become not so good. Now the balance team have specifally compared them to volks and not allied inf, so they are balanaced agaisnt volks, not penals or riflemen.

But pfussies do suck in the early game but idk how you can buff them without making them OP. and personally when it does come to pfussies vs allied inf, you really should be mixing obers with your pfussies to be able to effectively fight off allied inf, and i dont see a problem with that

The essential issue is that Panzerfusiliers are 270 mp for a unit that performs like a 240 one, but they never get properly rewarded for this supposed inbalance like some forum warriors claim.
They are never able to decently stand up against USF/UKF mainlines.
They scale marginally better than volks, that cost less AND are also notoriously scaling horribly so it's a ridicolously low bar and far from anything special. Looking at their performances you could easily argue they are underwhelming for their cost in late game, even without considering that they are supposed to be better than their cost implies to make up for being so worse in early game.

It's only shitty if you build straight fusiliers and nothing else. If you mix them in with volks, your opening will be fine

Building volks won't make panzerfusiliers cost 260 mp, or their upgrade cost 40 munitions, which is actually what they are worth.

The essential issue is that Panzerfusiliers are 270 mp for a unit that performs like a 240 one, but they never get properly rewarded for this supposed inbalance like some forum warriors claim.
They are never able to decently stand up against USF/UKF mainlines.
They scale marginally better than volks, that cost less AND are also notoriously scaling horribly so it's a ridicolously low bar and far from anything special. Looking at their performances you could easily argue they are underwhelming for their cost in late game, even without considering that they are supposed to be better than their cost implies to make up for being so worse in early game.

then decrease ther cost

Building volks won't make panzerfusiliers cost 260 mp, or their upgrade cost 40 munitions, which is actually what they are worth.

40 munitions? Why on earth would it be cheaper than most weapon upgrades?

I can take you seriously if you would say 60 like most others upgrades. Id still disagree, but 40 is a joke

That's no tantrum, I used the exact argument you have made.
If OKW shouldn't have a mainline that competes with allied infantry, no matter the cost, then there's no reasom for the KV1 to have the upper hand against a Panzer 4, no matter the cost

No, you have completely ignored what I have said and have pulled a poor star man there and now you're doing some weird, unrelated mental gymnastics, but I'll address it for fun:

KV-1 does not compete with P4.
KV-1 competes with T-34/85 for place in soviet BO.
You know, like PFs compete with volks.

40 munitions? Why on earth would it be cheaper than most weapon upgrades?

I can take you seriously if you would say 60 like most others upgrades. Id still disagree, but 40 is a joke

It's 40 just for the sight and flare
Because upgrades NECESSARY to make units function their intended role are free, see infiltration unit upgrades.

Where the fuck are you getting this stuff from? Can you stop making up random shit that has nothing to do with what I'm saying?


Have I said anything like this? Have I said nerf fusiliers at all? Have I said anything even remotely close to this nonsense your whining about? No. I just said they don't need to pick up a weapon after the upgrade, because it's good enough as is. Your response was to whine about conscripts and Riflemen, which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said

well if u don't see it as a nerf then you don't mind removing it from all non usf and ukf squad ? since it's not a nerf i mean they don't need it too, u would not see such a thing as a nerf right ?

I was talking about the utility of the whole squad. I know this is an internatinal forum but you seriously need to try to read/write better. This is getting out of hand


You know upgrades are personalized for squads right? I'm not even sure what your trying to say here. The upgrade and the squad are linked. Thats not cherrypicking, it's just talking about upgrades

ok then let's talk about the whole squad + upgrade
the squad cost 270 mp from the start and 25 mp to reinforce for worse performance than cons

they can be upgrade for a total of 295 mp and 90 munition to receive 1 extra men with a g43 and replace 2 rifle for g43 and 5 sight range

now let's talk utility what they get base is at nade and normal nade which is is practically like rifle men and they get flare like rifleman (if they pick the right doc)

i believe then we can compare the 2 fire power now since their utility is the same

by test obviously with no upgrade PF get shred at all ranges not even gonna brother with imgs

let's see both upgraded 295 mp 90 m vs 280 mp 60 m

and vs volks too to show just how shity they are at vet 5

as u can see the fire power and utility compared to rifle is same or worse while being much more expensive and having both slot occupied

https://imgur.com/a/fjl0Lto

I have not used the word spam once. Stop making shit up to argue against

yea saying spam was not right but can you still show some replay in which u use PF as meta, as u said they are very popular and meta and replace volks so u must have some right ?

No, you have completely ignored what I have said and have pulled a poor star man there and now you're doing some weird, unrelated mental gymnastics, but I'll address it for fun:

KV-1 does not compete with P4.
KV-1 competes with T-34/85 for place in soviet BO.
You know, like PFs compete with volks.

You are perfectly right, we should rebalance KV1 to have the same cost but starts as a worse t-34/76, and maybe at vet 3 it gets marginally better