Katy 's "Creeping Barrage" ability

The scatter of the creeping barrage is so large that I'd go so far as to say it's completely useless. This has something to do how scatter is calculated in this case, and might also involve a potential bug in the implementation. Allow me me elaborate:

Most of you will know how scatter works in CoH2, and if not, there is a comprehensive guide to look up the details here.

So in short, there is 'box' around the targeted point for every unit that defines where shots can land in. The far end is usually a bit wider than the near end, but the exact size and shape are defined by the distance and other, unit-specific parameters. For the normal Katy barrage, it looks something like the box on the right in the picture below.



However, in case of the creeping barrage there is an additional box as shown in the middle panel (approx. as wide and long as the in-game indicator). The box is divided into sections, which become active after a given number of shots fired or time elapsed - this is basically the creep in the creeping barrage.

Now each random point in the box, or active section, is NOT where a rocket will impact (the red cross), but rather defines the center point of the scatter cone of each rocket (the blue cross). That means scatter for the creeping barrage - even the first salvo, is much greater than for the normal barrage at any distance (left panel).

And here's where the presumed implementation bug comes into play.
The Katy, as many other units, has several hardpoints with different weapon profiles used for specific abilities. This way, mortars for example can have lower scatter and lower reload for their barrage ability than for autofire. In case of the Katy, there is a rocket profile with high scatter used in the normal barrage ability (hardpoint 2) and a low-scatter one (hardpoint 3), that gets called by the creeping barrage and the (long gone) precision barrage.
However, there seem to be two separate creeping barrage abilities for the Katy in the editor (katyusha_rocket_truck_creeping_barrage_mp and katyusha_creeping_barrage_mp) - and as you might guess at this point one calls the low-scatter hardpoint 3 and the other the regular, high-scatter weapon in hardpoint 2.

So, since the current creeping barrage ability for the Katyusha uses the same weapon profile as the regular barrage, scatter is atrocious and the ability practically worthless. I'm not sure if this got changed by accident back when the precision barrage was purged from the game or if there's any other good reason... but in my opinion the creeping barrage should be reverted to use hardpoint 3 instead. That way it would still have quite significant scatter, but at least it wouldn't suck way more than the regular barrage at any given scenario except burning munitions.

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from the test I have made it did not seem to scatter more than regular barrage.

In fact the first salvo seem to land very close to the beginning of the ability

i used it once. and it was great Show Spoiler

from the test I have made it did not seem to scatter more than regular barrage.

In fact the first salvo seem to land very close to the beginning of the ability

Yeah that's absolutely possible, but also depends on how many tests you've run. After all, scatter is heavily RNG dependent and it's quite likely two consecutive barrages have totally different impact patterns. One time almost all rockets land dead center, and yet another time they'll scatter wildly. You'll need a huge volume of fire to actually see the full range of possible scatter outcomes for comparison.

The picture below doesn't show this perfectly due to the comparably large size of the splats, but gives a good impression of the difference in scatter between creeping barrage (right) and barrage (left) at similar distance.



The number of impacts in both cases is well beyond 1,000 (you can replicate this by setting the reload of the weapon (katyusha_bm_13_16_rocket_mp) to zero and increasing the number of rockets fired barrage abilities (katyusha_creeping_barrage_mp and katyusha_rocket_truck_barrage_mp)) and the conscript sandbags are added for size reference.

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Well the thing is that "large scatter" area is predictable and in some case a plus. The reason is that people will proably move after the first group of rocker land and if one predict where they will move one can get more hits with next salvo.

I am not saying the ability is great but that comparing scatter areas would mostly make sense if all rocket landed simultaneously or if one was aiming at static target.

[..]
I am not saying the ability is great but that comparing scatter areas would mostly make sense if all rocket landed simultaneously or if one was aiming at static target.

the thing is that the scatter of even the first salvo of 4 rockets is way larger for the creeping barrage than for the normal one, which costs you munitions on top of being worse. i'm just not seeing any usefulness in the ability at all in its current state

the thing is that the scatter of even the first salvo of 4 rockets is way larger for the creeping barrage than for the normal one, which costs you munitions on top of being worse. i'm just not seeing any usefulness in the ability at all in its current state

That makes little sense, yes.

crying about katjuschas performanche is indeed a funny thing these days...its hands down the best rocket arty ingame. nondoc...shotgun modus delete any squad with no react time and have more range than axis rocket arty to be shure you dont need to drive to front like axis must do

Actually you're wrong, Katy scatter is quite bad on FoW but werfer will delete squads if you're close enough

All you need to do is park it behind a shot blocker for easy wipes

i used it once. and it was great Show Spoiler

I've seen Skippy use the ability to good effect

You just need to know where the scatter lands for good results

Ideally creeping barrage should be used as an alternative fire mode (not requiring munition) to "predict" the movement of units, considering they will move-retreat.

If it could be fixed in such a way that the amount of rockets fired matches the retreat of ATG (delay between barrages, amount of rockets, accuracy) it could be used very effectively. It should be still vet1 though.

Actually you're wrong, Katy scatter is quite bad on FoW but werfer will delete squads if you're close enough

All you need to do is park it behind a shot blocker for easy wipes

What you say sounds more like a shotgun rather a rocket artillery. Shot blockers cant be built on demand so its worth saying that a well hidden pwerfer hitting at point blank distance is a skill shot/play. That is also double the risk a katy has facing infantry and wiping them at even farer distance (and having multiple volleys, making a retaliation prohibitive)

i used it once. and it was great Show Spoiler

I tried it a few days ago and had the same experience, but don't really think the Katy needs any buffs. It's already my favorite rocket arty. The PWerfer has to move closer to get any chance to wipe anything, which makes it a lot more vulnerable. The Walking Stuka is too good against Soviets but usually not good enough against USF. The calliope has the same problem as the PWerfer, meaning it has to be close to be effective but it has a ton more armor and hit points.

If there is any rocket arty that needs a buff, it is the land mattress. If the balance team was going to change (not necessarily buff) one, I'd vote for the Walking stuka - give it a lot smaller wipe radius but a larger AOE with suppression (maybe 20 seconds).

Does the Katty creeping use the Precision rockets? If so, it's only accurate if you go perpendicular to launch angle.

Does the Katty creeping use the Precision rockets? If so, it's only accurate if you go perpendicular to launch angle.

it might have previously (there are actually two different creeping barrage abilities in the game files) but the current one uses the regular barrage rockets

...ouch.