Congratulations balance team

This thread is a new lowpoint for coh2.org, the malice is just sick. I really hope the guys who always complain but dont do a shit will take over. Oh wait, they cant...

Because the balance team was never a democracy.

Why is ost the only ones with mainline infantry that can't maneuver yet still sucks when in cover. Atleast give grens som better damage with veterancy because they don't scale. When allies have vet 3 on all their infantry they can basically ignore grens.

To think of it, why not raise the vet requirements for all infantry, its too easy to reach vet 3 since AT grenades gives you almost half a level of vet.

"Why are Ost the only ones...." Haven't you known, Ost always gets "special" (inferior) treatment from bal team all these years.

Anyone can post a clip with a blob and ability without context, but how about actual replays



Here is seeking top 7 brit struggling vs some rank 30ish player that refuses to build any infantry apart from volk spam, yet the OKW guy only loses because he throws all his vehicles (watch his amazing puma micro), stands on grenades and decides to stall for KT when he could wrap up with panther.

OKW are stronger this patch, but Ost vs Brits is a different match up.

seeking is a member of T.R. clan so i know him (i actually told him to snipe miragefla to show him how op sections are) and he plays brits Becouse he clearly thinks that they are op and he wanted to see how easy he can get to top 10 in 1vs1

Yes providing evidence of an issue and having numerous high rank players agree is a lowpoint for the site.

I have no trouble believing tommies are OP. I just don't get what's wrong with this clip

I've been watching volks and grens nade maxims from the front for years with a much smaller numbers advantage

Because there's a big 1v1 tournament this weekend.

that is exactly what I meant - its called cohrona

Yes providing evidence of an issue and having numerous high rank players agree is a lowpoint for the site.

With this evidence all i can say is blobbing sucks. No matter what faction commits it. Just because ukf in general was buffed does not mean tommy blob is somehow more threatening. Rifle blob could just as well chew up the same, with even better results when you mix re or officer with smokes to blind mgs.

I have no trouble believing tommies are OP. I just don't get what's wrong with this clip

I've been watching volks and grens nade maxims from the front for years with a much smaller numbers advantage

Wounded axis force worth of half menpower didn't beat allied force being buffed by ability and greatly outnumbering them.
If 1000mp of axis units can't beat 2400mp of allied units, its a balance problem, totally not anything else, 100% balance problem.

It's weird that no one complained about OP UKF after the last 2v2 test tournament two weeks ago. It was played with the Winter Balance Preview.

Also weird that UKF didn't even do well in that tournament. So is the live version not the same as the Winter Preview in terms of unit performance? I just rewatched the VODs partially and it was generally more Soviets carrying UKF than UKF carrying their teammate. Also there were games where UKF got complelty stomped (like Isildur's UKF doing nothing despite getting carried for 50 minutes by Dzaraa)

Also where were all the "pro" players crying about UKF before the patch was released?

It's weird that no one complained about OP UKF after the last 2v2 test tournament two weeks ago. It was played with the Winter Balance Preview.

Also weird that UKF didn't even do well in that tournament. So is the live version not the same as the Winter Preview in terms of unit performance?

Also where were all the "pro" players crying about UKF before the patch was released?

probably they needed time to adjust back to brits, after having played them for a while. Now cleary a lot of players are unhappy, if orangepest doesnt talk bullshit in his stream vonasten noggano jove etc agree with him that brits are OP at the moment.

I basically think it comes down to the fact that the 5 men upgrate comes too fast and then you cant dispach 5 men sections behind cover and aec can shut down any natural counter namely vehicles.

Then they can basically snowball very fast with either valentine call in or a fast cromwell

I also think that it is a bigger problem in 1vs1 then 2vs2, Becouse mgs work better in 2vs2, so this might also be a reason why it wasnt seen in the 2vs2 test tournament

probably they needed time to adjust back to brits

This patch was in development for almost half a year and several tournaments were played on it. So I don't know how valid this really is.

IMO we should just wait for the Cohrona cup first and see how it goes then the balance team can release a hotfix based on some solid competitive games.

It's weird that no one complained about OP UKF after the last 2v2 test tournament two weeks ago. It was played with the Winter Balance Preview.

Also weird that UKF didn't even do well in that tournament. So is the live version not the same as the Winter Preview in terms of unit performance? I just rewatched the VODs partially and it was generally more Soviets carrying UKF than UKF carrying their teammate. Also there were games where UKF got complelty stomped (like Isildur's UKF doing nothing despite getting carried for 50 minutes by Dzaraa)

Also where were all the "pro" players crying about UKF before the patch was released?

This clip seems a bit misleading. Doesn't it look like a lot of the MG42 bullets are going into either the wall in front of it (right MG) or the well in front of it (left MG)? On the right MG, Miragefla even repositions it so it looks like he's recognizing the problem. Also, the gren on the right doesn't look like it is providing any extra vision to the MG42. Also, the match couldn't have been going that well for Miragefla long before this engagement because he is badly out-resourced in this fight.

Stormjager what exactly is the issue you have with this clip?

Call me a Brit fanboy if you like (they are my highest rank, just played Wehr all day tho so whatevs), but I disagree that this is a balance issue. Even if I don't think "manpower maths" is valid in most cases, Kaitof has a really obvious point here.

There are EIGHT sections here, plus bolster upgrade and extra reinforce costs, plus grenade upgrade, plus medic and pyro, plus they throw a succesful grenade. Versus 3 stock grens and 2 MG42s.

In terms of MP / Muni / Fuel, that's something like 2400 / 300 / 50 compared to 980 / 0 / 0.

Yes, it was a massive noob play by the UKF player. But how was he allowed to get to that point? Where is the rest of the Wehr army? If UKF player bought only sections, why didn't Wehr get 222 or 444?

And can this really be explained by the relatively minor buffs to moving accuracy and received accuracy to IS in the last patch?

There are EIGHT sections here, plus bolster upgrade and extra reinforce costs, plus grenade upgrade, plus medic and pyro, plus they throw a succesful grenade. Versus 3 stock grens and 2 MG42s.

I wouldn't count medic and pyro upgrades as they didn't contribute anything.
There still is overwehelming force difference and there was doctrinal buff ability used too.

To put that in tank combat setting, its like expecting 3 ATGs to stop Churchill croc and 3 KV-8s.

Stormjager what exactly is the issue you have with this clip?

Call me a Brit fanboy if you like (they are my highest rank, just played Wehr all day tho so whatevs), but I disagree that this is a balance issue. Even if I don't think "manpower maths" is valid in most cases, Kaitof has a really obvious point here.

There are EIGHT sections here, plus bolster upgrade and extra reinforce costs, plus grenade upgrade, plus medic and pyro, plus they throw a succesful grenade. Versus 3 stock grens and 2 MG42s.

In terms of MP / Muni / Fuel, that's something like 2400 / 300 / 50 compared to 980 / 0 / 0.

Yes, it was a massive noob play by the UKF player. But how was he allowed to get to that point? Where is the rest of the Wehr army? If UKF player bought only sections, why didn't Wehr get 222 or 444?

And can this really be explained by the relatively minor buffs to moving accuracy and received accuracy to IS in the last patch?

He charges head first into two well-postioned Mgs supported by other infantry. If they can do that to MGs (especially an MG42 whose whole job is to suppressed blobbed up infantry), they could have just as easily done that Volks or other units.

This patch was in development for almost half a year and several tournaments were played on it. So I don't know how valid this really is.

IMO we should just wait for the Cohrona cup first and see how it goes then the balance team can release a hotfix based on some solid competitive games.

I'm with you here. Brits are considered very strong at the moment by the general community so I'm sure competitors gunning for the prize money are refreshing their Brit strategies.

Any changes they need would just be statistics related to damage and RA to sections for the most part, I would suspect.

Yeah I mean it's pretty cancerous to fight "buff all my infantry and charge" blobs but the LMG42s were mid upgrade, bad choice IMO but w/e, no incendiary rounds on the right 42, repositioned it mid fight. Left MG42 got cheesed a bit because one of the sections got suppressed while throwing the grenade but they don't lose their range mid animation like other units do. That's more of gimmick BS than OP sections. Pgrens in the base but didn't move them up till near end of fight.

It looks pretty dumb, but I think there were enough mistakes from OST there that it isn't so black and white as "section op".

Clip1: MG
Clip2: 222
Clip3: Orangepest

There is a real possibility that UKF had gone OP or been balanced BUT the clips are not showing that at all. Let me dissect it:

Lee Enfield moving accuracy from 0.35 to 0.5

Pyrotechnics unlocks 'Off-Map Smoke Barrage'. 25 munitions. Smoke comes from off-map after a 3 second delay; has cooldown is shared amongst all Infantry Sections. Same range as Tommy Artillery Flares.

Target size from 0.9 to 0.85; target size in cover remains the same at 0.8

Lend Lease Regiment Assault Section upgrade removed (see below).

Let's start with the easier one.

Clip3: that would had happen pre patch as well. 2 Grens pushing in the open against IS been on cover still. STATS are equal. The squad which lost model was in the open (single model which was never targeted was behind light) and approach from a shotblocker. The first model that appears get's focused as the squad has no other model to target.
ANY squad of bolt action rifles has less than 50% of their DPS on the move.
Combine RNG for perfect spread of dmg after the first IS model lost and you have the video. 3 models at low HP vs focus fire 3 models down on Grens.

Clip2: not sure what the 222 is supposed to accomplish. The unit was never great against more than 1 squad. Wouldn't a double MG42 + FHT been a better option without any snares nor mines.

Clip1:
All numbers from the top of my head without checking so they can be wrong.

7-8 IS (4 on left. 3 + 1 on right), all at full health, with bolster, nades and at 5 man. That's a 64 popcap army. On top of using assault (or whatever it is called).
As for cost, let's not count the upgrades. Just the squad value + 1 reinforce per model.
(270 + 28) * 8 = 2384
If only 270 * 8 = 2160
If bolster after 4 IS = 2272

3 Grens, 2 MG42. No upgrades (both LMG42 upgrade when the fight is over and would be worst at that distance anyway). Right Gren is a lower than half health. Pak is irrelevant as it not even drawing fire.
So 3 x 7 + 2 * 6 = 33 pop
Cost: 720 + 520 = 1240mp

Let's dissect the 2 fights separately.

Right side trades more effectively cause the MG is on green cover (not just the crew) and all squads comes from a single position been able to suppress them and pin one. But then decides to move it (mistake) cause he fear the nade, which he should just tank it if they were able to be in range (which they don't cause the closest one was pinned).
Incoming 4th IS + suppressed one deal with the low HP gren. Left side IS recovers from suppression cause it barely got suppressed (it was further from the one who was targeted) and was not been fired upon.
Left IS nades the MG (which is now not in cover, 3 models and not firing)
Surprisingly that was a winnable fight or at least trading effectively if he didn't do anything at all besides retreating once the 4th IS appeared.

Left side: the 4 IS against the MG and 2 Grens full HP. Unfortunately the MG model is not in cover (it doesn't matter cause the grenade seems to come from the side).
2 IS comes from far right and 2 on left/middle left. 3 Squads get suppressed but the left one from barely outside cover nades and wipes the MG.
IS which was on the right but more left recover from suppression cause it was not the main squad been shot at and in cover. Most left squad recover cause it barely got splashed by AoE suppression.

It's stupid that 8 IS MAY work. It's not stupid what happens in the clips once you take one second to check what is really happening.

Yeah I mean it's pretty cancerous to fight "buff all my infantry and charge" blobs but the LMG42s were mid upgrade, bad choice IMO but w/e, no incendiary rounds on the right 42, repositioned it mid fight. Left MG42 got cheesed a bit because one of the sections got suppressed while throwing the grenade but they don't lose their range mid animation like other units do. That's more of gimmick BS than OP sections. Pgrens in the base but didn't move them up till near end of fight.

It looks pretty dumb, but I think there were enough mistakes from OST there that it isn't so black and white as "section op".

The left IS throw the nade before getting suppressed.

Left IS trow the grenade before being suppressed

https://imgur.com/W90dBBy

Right HMG get move order while one squad is still unsupressed, another recover and get the frag.

He's been brute forced and the move could have failed the same way it succeed. Question is how comes he only has this army size when his opponent have twice the investment in manpower and upgrades on his tommies