Jagdtiger is horrible

I am talking about 2v2 mainly, so keep that in mind.

The Jagdtiger at this point is just an Elefant without 222 and spotting scope support. The unit isn't used in any somewhat high-level 2v2 games and when I used the JT it never worked well enough to make up for it's insane cost. IMO it's pretty damn bad. Why would I get a JT over two non-doctrinal JP4s? They will deal way more damage against anything but IS2s or maybe ISU and at the same time have camo, better mobility and a smaller target size. Considering there is a new balance patch coming can this unit please get some help? Make the AI barrage more effective? Give it back 80 range? Give back armour? It desperately needs something.

I think the Elefant just blends better with OST lategame (and scopes obviously), as ost can use not only short range antiinfantry units like the Ostwind and P4 to protect it but also with the t4 tech the Brummbar or pwerfer to shield the Elefant from AT-guns, with the current tech system it is often the best idea in teamgames to go for the battlegroup/med HQ into a fast p4 sometimes with a flak ht and then to stall for a jt - but you will usually lack antiinfantry fighting capability unless your teammate can help you out as p4spam backed up by a jt isn't as good as a KT backed up by jp4s.
You can try playing with the mech hq instead and get some light vehicles and a stuka for the lategame but without the medics you might waste your munitions on healing that could have been a forced retreat or a sweet pair of g43s.
The doctrine itself is quite good and interesting but the jt surely isn't the best part about it and beside buffing its AI-capabilities there probably isn't much that can be done without making the jt too strong as the full 80 range with the new mobility most likely are too strong (especially on minsk or crossing in the woods (or if you abuse the world piercing rounds on any map)).

Yes also isu152 can switch to great ai damages and sov have cheaper t34 to flank.

JT is kinda hopeless, so is KT. Too much nerfs hit. Easy to counter and less effective on field.

Maybe in 4v4 it can work better than KT. But that's the state of axis super heavies now, more liability than uses

Heavy tank destroyers are pure cancer for teamgames so no thx

Beasthunter already made good points for why ELE is better. This holds up in 1v1 also, I can sometimes see myself going for ELE in long dragged out match in langreskaya but never would I go for JT as OKW.

I think that the balanced way to buff JT is to balance its abilities 1v1 in mind and stats with 2v2 in mind. In its current state the abilities are completely lackluster:
-For 70 muni you get to shoot 3 times (vet0) through a world object at reduced rate of fire. This ability has a minute cooldown. If you compare this to ISU152 it is clear that this ability should be a toggle mode.
-40muni supporting fire is too inaccurate and there is nothing there to shoot at after the 3rd shell anyway unless the opponent is AFK. Increase the accuracy and reduce the number of shells to 2 and vet1 to +1. Decrease cost to 30 muni.

I don't understand why the JT and Elefant got constantly nerfed while the anti everything ISU-152 can remain untouched.

Any buff to make it better in 1v1/2v2 is likely going to shit on balance in larger teamgames.

Not that it really matters considering the slugfest that is 3v3/4v4.

lol for me Jagdtiger is OP and one reason of bad balance. For me it is a 3vs3 and 4vs4 only vehicle, it fits the role.

I am talking about 2v2 mainly, so keep that in mind.

The Jagdtiger at this point is just an Elefant without 222 and spotting scope support. The unit isn't used in any somewhat high-level 2v2 games and when I used the JT it never worked well enough to make up for it's insane cost. IMO it's pretty damn bad. Why would I get a JT over two non-doctrinal JP4s? They will deal way more damage against anything but IS2s or maybe ISU and at the same time have camo, better mobility and a smaller target size. Considering there is a new balance patch coming can this unit please get some help? Make the AI barrage more effective? Give it back 80 range? Give back armour? It desperately needs something.

You just answered your own question. Use JT against allied heavies and JPZIV against anything else. JT most certanly does not need anything else considering how cancerous heavy TD's are in team games

Yes all the more to reduce range!
70td to 60td!
Afterwards,we can see JT other stats to improve.
Able to shoot a cross a map is lazy!

I am talking about 2v2 mainly, so keep that in mind.

The Jagdtiger at this point is just an Elefant without 222 and spotting scope support. The unit isn't used in any somewhat high-level 2v2 games and when I used the JT it never worked well enough to make up for it's insane cost. IMO it's pretty damn bad. Why would I get a JT over two non-doctrinal JP4s? They will deal way more damage against anything but IS2s or maybe ISU and at the same time have camo, better mobility and a smaller target size. Considering there is a new balance patch coming can this unit please get some help? Make the AI barrage more effective? Give it back 80 range? Give back armour? It desperately needs something.

This is simply a case of a balanced and solid unit that gets overshadowed by another one... the elefant is busted af because it's in a doctrine with spotting scopes and recon planes. If the JT would have this amount of "easy to pull off" recon support then it would be equally amazing.

Though I still dont understand why you always complain about the HE barrage, it is doing its job against static targets. The only thing I would slightly buff on JT are the veterancy requirements

How is the JT a balanced unit when it's literally never used? I don't know about 3v3 or 4v4 but the JT is completely dead for 1v1 and 2v2. I understand the way the unit is designed is never going to make it particularly suitable for a 1v1 but it should be viable in 2v2 but it isnt't. That's why it needs help IMO.

"Teamgame unit" ISU is perfectly fine in 2v2 and sometimes borderline uncounterable for OKW without either Ele-support from teammate or a combination of Panther + Stuka AT planes. But I guess sniping units across the map is somehow not cancerous and only JT/Ele are an issue.

How is the JT a balanced unit when it's literally never used?

The same way soviet mortar, USF mortar, M5 quad, StuG III and many others are balanced and almost never used.

I don't know about 3v3 or 4v4 but the JT is completely dead for 1v1 and 2v2. I understand the way the unit is designed is never going to make it particularly suitable for a 1v1 but it should be viable in 2v2 but it isnt't. That's why it needs help IMO.

How is it a problem again? ISU isn't exactly your go-to choice in 1v1 either. Not all units work equally well in all game modes and there is nothing wrong with it.
A lot of 1v1 non meta units are bordering on overpowered in team games, arty being prime example.
Light vehicles are completely unviable and useless in 3v3 and 4v4, yet we don't see them being buffed.

"Teamgame unit" ISU is perfectly fine in 2v2 and sometimes borderline uncounterable for OKW without either Ele-support from teammate or a combination of Panther + Stuka AT planes. But I guess sniping units across the map is somehow not cancerous and only JT/Ele are an issue.

I see ele in 2v2 often enough, from both, RT and AT teams. Its not meta and never will be meta again, but there is nothing wrong with it. Oh and I see ISU equally often. These super heavies simply are harder to pull off in smaller game modes, therefore you don't see them often, but to say they are useless or horrible is just being delusional.

This is simply a case of a balanced and solid unit that gets overshadowed by another one... the elefant is busted af because it's in a doctrine with spotting scopes and recon planes. If the JT would have this amount of "easy to pull off" recon support then it would be equally amazing.

Though I still dont understand why you always complain about the HE barrage, it is doing its job against static targets. The only thing I would slightly buff on JT are the veterancy requirements

Don't forget JT has Panzerfusiliers with longer sight range and flares to support, also OKW has non-doc maphacks, just because it isnt "222+scopes" easy mode doesn't mean it has nothing to support it.

I don't understand why the JT and Elefant got constantly nerfed while the anti everything ISU-152 can remain untouched.

Probably because they would Pen always and everything, at 70-80 range and 2 shot any medium tank.
ISU doesnt have the penetration or damage comparable to Ele/JT, and even slower ROF to boot.
Also, ISU has been nerfed, ages ago, way before Ele/JT nerfs came into place, and it just kinda stayed that way.

How is the JT a balanced unit when it's literally never used? I don't know about 3v3 or 4v4 but the JT is completely dead for 1v1 and 2v2. I understand the way the unit is designed is never going to make it particularly suitable for a 1v1 but it should be viable in 2v2 but it isnt't. That's why it needs help IMO.

It's a 4v4/3v3 unit, and its going to stay that way, even when they were borderline broken they weren't used in 1v1s, while turning large team games into pure cancer.
It's a powerful vehicle that can completely turn the game around.

You don't have to get it in 1vs1. It becomes an option if you can't counter you enemy in some sitiations instead of Tiger II. I can't see the problems, in 3vs3 and 4vs4 it is more or less OP, if you have enough sight.

Shame that Super Heavy TDs have been regulated to teamgame units.

Shame that Super Heavy TDs have been regulated to teamgame units.

They never had a place in 1s and in 2s they were literal cancer, I still have nightmares from facing both, ele and jt at the same time.

Good riddance they are niche instead of go-to choice now.

Shame that Super Heavy TDs have been regulated to teamgame units.

Elefant is still super viable in 2v2. It's still meta too.

i think jadgtigers excuse to be worse than ele in case of having no real spotting for it would be ablity to shoot through terrain and buildings with special rounds or hit infantry with support fire. issue is these abilites dont hold water.

special rounds cost 90 munitions, which means utilizing them is way too expensive, with also the fact that there are very few places where you can use this to your advantage. support fire, while i love the ability, does not work well either. Limited range forces you to get too close to comfort and usually you can only make one hit on any given unit as you can easily manouver away from its area of effect. Making penetration round cheaper or allowing support fire to be more capable, like having better rate of fire or being more powerful single round could easen the issue. One other potential would be giving cautious movement to vet 0 and making it more effective, so you could use luchs later on as spotter. As it stands, its not easy to keep luchs long enough alive before jadg hits the field.

I am talking about 2v2 mainly, so keep that in mind.

The Jagdtiger at this point is just an Elefant without 222 and spotting scope support. The unit isn't used in any somewhat high-level 2v2 games and when I used the JT it never worked well enough to make up for it's insane cost. IMO it's pretty damn bad. Why would I get a JT over two non-doctrinal JP4s? They will deal way more damage against anything but IS2s or maybe ISU and at the same time have camo, better mobility and a smaller target size. Considering there is a new balance patch coming can this unit please get some help? Make the AI barrage more effective? Give it back 80 range? Give back armour? It desperately needs something.

The ISU152 is pretty bad honestly, maybe it's the same problem with jagdtiger.
These two tanks are of use "on paper" but their performance just doesn't leave any doubt when you have to chose between the doctrines that have ISU/JT and the others.