Shock Crew on IS2?
Posts: 896
Posts: 604
Note that those are several chances working together so randomness can play a huge role here. The faster firing speed can also make a huge difference.
Overall, the Tiger is designed to be better at anti tank and the IS-2 to be better at anti infantry combat. This doesn't mean that it needs to stun more often or anything, I think they could even remove the stun mechanic altogether because I dislike the randomness created by those big "binary" effects (stun, AT grenade, ram) based on a random chance rather than player skill.
Those effects should be noticeable but their intensity should decrease rather than their success chance.
Posts: 337
The IS2 has a 1/6 chance to stun on deflection and the Tiger has a 1/5 chance to stun on deflection. Both have roughly 50% chance to penetrate each other but the Tiger fires nearly twice as fast.
Note that those are several chances working together so randomness can play a huge role here. The faster firing speed can also make a huge difference.
Overall, the Tiger is designed to be better at anti tank and the IS-2 to be better at anti infantry combat. This doesn't mean that it needs to stun more often or anything, I think they could even remove the stun mechanic altogether because I dislike the randomness created by those big "binary" effects (stun, AT grenade, ram) based on a random chance rather than player skill.
Those effects should be noticeable but their intensity should decrease rather than their success chance.
Is it both 50% chance to pen? I thought the IS2's penetration was buffed to 170? Tiger has 140.
Posts: 604
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Posts: 604
So yeah, this difference is a lot bigger. More penetrated hits mean less chances for crew stun of course.
Posts: 896
The Tiger gets a bit too much shock crew on the IS2. I really think it needs to be toned down a bit.
Posts: 401
Most of anything in the Soviet army cannot withstand a direct front to front fight with a Tiger for more than a few hits. Most of the time they escape out of sight or blow up.
That said, it couldn't hurt to check and see if there's a bug somewhere in there, either in some numerical value, or the shock chance code itself.
Posts: 896
I think it may be that the IS-2 is the only tank that can survive enough hits from a tiger that it makes this low chance of crew shock into a common occurrence in games.
Most of anything in the Soviet army cannot withstand a direct front to front fight with a Tiger for more than a few hits. Most of the time they escape out of sight or blow up.
That said, it couldn't hurt to check and see if there's a bug somewhere in there, either in some numerical value, or the shock chance code itself.
yes makes perfect sense and I hope we can have some help on this.
Posts: 604
"on_deflected_actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\random_action.lua",
"instant": false,
"random_actions": [
{
"actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\trigger_critical_action.lua",
"critical": "vehicle_crew_shocked",
"remove_at_health": 1
}
],
"weight": 1
},
{
"actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\no_action.lua"
}
],
"weight": 4
}
]
}
Posts: 896
I don't think there is a bug. It is simply a chance for the crew shock critical with a weight of 1 on deflection and a chance to do nothing a weight of 4.
Code"on_deflected_actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\random_action.lua",
"instant": false,
"random_actions": [
{
"actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\trigger_critical_action.lua",
"critical": "vehicle_crew_shocked",
"remove_at_health": 1
}
],
"weight": 1
},
{
"actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\no_action.lua"
}
],
"weight": 4
}
]
}
so 20% chance? is it the same for the Tiger?
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedDunno, gets really complicated overall when you start considering how much the constant shock may be hindering IS2s already lower RoF.
Probably pretty strongly in Tigers favor, I would think.
Posts: 604
so 20% chance? is it the same for the Tiger?
These are the ones for the Tiger. The IS-2 has a 1 in 6 chance, so ~16.7%
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
These are the ones for the Tiger. The IS-2 has a 1 in 6 chance, so ~16.7%
I could have sworn that the shock chance for the IS2 was removed in the update that bumped up its penetration and damage. Can't find the patch notes though.
And the Tiger does seem to stun the IS2 quite a lot from my (anecdotal) experience. I had one stun my IS2 two or three times consecutively in one engagement.
Given that the IS2 is better all-round and still dominates nearly everything one-on-one, though, and hunting armor is the Tiger's niche, I don't think the Tiger needs an adjustment in that department. Maybe if the Tiger's penetration was upped from the rather strange 154 value to maybe 170 or so, just to solidify its role as a primarily anti-armor tank, then the whole 'crew-shock' thing could be dropped entirely - instead of an RNG factor that, as the user of the tank, you can't count on to work, and as the recipient of the stun, you get frustrated by for being screwed over by the (bad) luck of the draw.
Posts: 401
Hard to remember all the little changes.
Also, I have to agree, it really does seem like in the Tiger/IS2 matchup I see crew shocked results with surprising regularity against the IS2. You can go through most games without seeing a single shock result, but as soon as you get an IS2 and Tiger on the field, suddenly it happens every time the tanks meet. I've actually had an IS2 get shocked twice in the same engagement, and more later on.
But again, I'm really not sure if it's an actual problem, or just that the IS2 is survivable enough that it's getting hit with more shots, which is more chances to naturally come up with a crew shock.
Posts: 604
"on_deflected_actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\random_action.lua",
"instant": false,
"random_actions": [
{
"actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\trigger_critical_action.lua",
"critical": "vehicle_crew_shocked",
"remove_at_health": 1
}
],
"weight": 1
},
{
"actions": [
{
"$REF": "action\\no_action.lua"
}
],
"weight": 5
}
]
}
Posts: 93
I want the possibility of stun crew turned way down
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
I thought so too (the patch) but the 1 in 6 chance is in the IS2 weapon file:
Right, it was the damage done on deflect that was removed, not stun chance. Strange, I've never actually seen (or can't remember ever seeing) an IS2 stun a tank on a bounce. Maybe because it fires so slowly and the shells, when they do hit, more often than not penetrate what they hit?
Yup agree on the shock too much. Put a vetted stug close by and the IS2 doesnt even get a shot off.
AFAIK only the Brumm, IS2, ISU, and Tiger have the chance to stun crew via deflects. Stugs, Paks, and other assault guns stun 100% of the time with the Vet 1 ability only- unless you're saying your opponent had a Tiger and a vetted Stug chain-stunning the IS2, in which case that's an unfortunate fact of life.
I want the possibility of stun crew turned way down
I'd be happy with the complete removal of the whole deflect-stun thing in favour of a proper stat buff or cost drop. At least that way you get what you pay for all the time.
Posts: 170
Right, it was the damage done on deflect that was removed, not stun chance. Strange, I've never actually seen (or can't remember ever seeing) an IS2 stun a tank on a bounce. Maybe because it fires so slowly and the shells, when they do hit, more often than not penetrate what they hit?
AFAIK only the Brumm, IS2, ISU, and Tiger have the chance to stun crew via deflects. Stugs, Paks, and other assault guns stun 100% of the time with the Vet 1 ability only- unless you're saying your opponent had a Tiger and a vetted Stug chain-stunning the IS2, in which case that's an unfortunate fact of life.
I'd be happy with the complete removal of the whole deflect-stun thing in favour of a proper stat buff or cost drop. At least that way you get what you pay for all the time.
Posts: 170
Right, it was the damage done on deflect that was removed, not stun chance. Strange, I've never actually seen (or can't remember ever seeing) an IS2 stun a tank on a bounce. Maybe because it fires so slowly and the shells, when they do hit, more often than not penetrate what they hit?
AFAIK only the Brumm, IS2, ISU, and Tiger have the chance to stun crew via deflects. Stugs, Paks, and other assault guns stun 100% of the time with the Vet 1 ability only- unless you're saying your opponent had a Tiger and a vetted Stug chain-stunning the IS2, in which case that's an unfortunate fact of life.
I'd be happy with the complete removal of the whole deflect-stun thing in favour of a proper stat buff or cost drop. At least that way you get what you pay for all the time.
He's talking about heat rounds.
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