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Counters to Penals+Shocks into IS2 as OKW?

15 Dec 2018, 11:01 AM
#1
avatar of Michalszym

Posts: 51

Sorry but I just got raped, the guy spammed penels which annihilated the volks squads I had, but it wasn't that bad, I was using the Newly revamped Elite armor doctrine, And chased down a sniper that he made with the new scout car. I thought that this would be an easy win for me but then the shock troops arrive, and combined with the penals getting their PTRS rifles, which made the scout car obsolete, I had no way to take down those shocks. I don't know what happened to them in the patch, but now they are complete terminators. No Amount of troops can deal with them. I got myself some obers which helped but not much. Then I got myself a p4 to counter those god damn shocks, only to realise he has an IS2 and I have no counter. I lost after that, with the penals perfectly protecting the sides of the IS2, the shocks pushing forward, and using smoke to counter any mg, and grenades to counter any racketens. Panther is no match for the IS2 even with does amazing new HEAT rounds. As usual this is most likely an L2P issue but If other people are facing the same issue I would kindly ask for any way to deal with this kind of strategy.
15 Dec 2018, 11:07 AM
#2
15 Dec 2018, 11:07 AM
#3
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Panther with tank commander and HEAT shells should annihilate IS-2. Make sure to keep it at max range so the IS-2 can't fire back effectively. With the HEAT shells it should have an easy time to pen at max range and take out a sizable chunk of HP per shot.

One kinda counter to Shock troops are SpecOps Obersoldaten with the STG44 upgrade and bundled grenades. SpecOps also has the infiltration grenades which gives Volks a good chance to kill charging Shocks. Probably the new Jaeger Light Infantry too as they'll snipe models with ease and cause massive bleed.
15 Dec 2018, 13:08 PM
#4
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

Doesn't belong in Balance.

Moved to state office, but due to your in-game chat I'm not going to review the replay.

Also, please organize your post in a manner friendlier on the eyes, thank you.
15 Dec 2018, 14:06 PM
#5
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I'll focus on YOUR mistakes, not on the opponent ones.

1': double SP opening. You lose a lot of map presence early on. Leave that for specific 2v2+ strats with a partner.

2: you got a SwS HT with 2 SP and a single Volks. You started fighting mid range with a Penal (you waggle in and out) and when the 2nd SP joins the fight, he backs up, you chase and you end up getting baited into a sniper. You cross red cover and your opponent is intelligent enough to use the sniper on the fullhealth SP and the Penal on the wounded SP.
You managed to make the opponent retreat, but you suffer heavy casualties. 4 models of SP and you are extremely low on health on one of them (20%).
Meanwhile, your Volks grenadier which was making a sandbag at the beginning is sitting doing nothing. Your SwS is doing nothing and you are floating almost 500mp. You went for the 221 rush.

3:Nevertheless, you are still ahead on map presence.

4:You chase the sniper and killed it. Set waypoint for units been built, even if it's just barely outside your base. Your attention is only focused on 1 thing for quite some time, meanwhile the rest of your army is sitting doing nothing (2 SP, a forward SwS, 2 Volks).

5: While that kill on the sniper was fine, it forced you to focus your attention on the 221 and repairing it. Your single Volk in the field is fighting 2 Penals (1 with PTRS) and a CE. You went for the Medic HQ.
After some retreats, you are 50/50 with your opponent. He has the fuel lead (2 fuel points and no vehicle) but you managed to wipe the sniper.

9: don't float as much munitions unless you have a plan for it (200). Mines, finish all your Volks squads with STGs, use grenades.
Don't retreat an MG into a garrison against a Shock squad, you almost lost it to a grenade.
Don't build more than 1 sandbag segment. Leave multiple sandbags against each other against comp stomp.
At some point you got medics.

11: you have 0 AT. 10 mins into the game. Again, you have 0 AT. Any decent player would had exploit this weakness, 3 minutes ago.
In your mind you might think you are winning the game. But you are not pushing each time you force a retreat from your opponent.
You went for Mech HQ.

13: 750mp, 200f. You went for a repair upgrade.
Armies atm.
2 Volks STG, Volk, MG, 2 SP, 223. You are still floating as well 360muni
2 Shocktroops, 2 PTRS Penals, Penal, Engineer.
Also, don't rush SP against Shocktroops. First wipe of the game for you. Lost the unupgraded Volks to face to face Shocks and a PTRS Penal (which only landed the final blow).

15: you start making Flak HQ. Your opponent already has T4. Big fight lost. Your opponent is constantly using grenades, both frag and smoke, to spread your army out. You basically full retreat. At least keep your 223 on "cache mode", if you are not using it.

17: NEVER face plant an MG at fire range from enemy units. Specially if they have grenades as Shocks.

20: Reminder to use munition. 500 float at this point. You got a PIV. He got an IS2.
I'm seeing the pattern. You forget about the rest of the army while focusing on a single unit.
22: Pacic rak after seeing the IS2. A bad rally point made you lose it instantly to Shock + IS2.
24: Tried to recrew rak, while fighting, with no proper cover for it, lost it to a flame barrage. Lost a Volks to Penal + Shocks.
The sole reason you haven't already lost, is because your opponent didn't steal or destroy that rak.

At this point you are tilted and start using chat.

25: KV8 arrives. Melts your units away. Your army is now an MG, a SP, a Volk, an Ober, a PIV and a building PV. Not counting the 223 cache.
You are running units in front of the KV8 just to lose them.

28: You traded SP + Volk and your vetted PIV for the KV8. (Insert worst trade trump meme).
29: you went for the RNG roll with the PV against IS2. You were lucky. At some point you lost your MG. Your only infantry is a single model of an Ober. You called a Sturmtiger.

33: Sturmtiger teamkills your vetted Panther after it was double AT satcheled by Penals.
35: at this point he only lost a single sniper infantry wise. You lost 3 SP, 4 Volks, your rak got stolen and you "lost" 3 times your MG (you recrewed it). Vehicle wise: he lost an IS2 and KV8 and you lost PV and PIV.

Game keeps going on but the game was already over way before.


Conclusion:

-First of all, if you don't have any positive to say on chat, just "disable" it. It tilts you and makes you play worse.
-DO NOT FLOAT munition unless you have a wonderous muni call in such as the Stuka Strafe. One of the main reasons you lost, is that your opponent manage to stay below 100 muni for most of the game by the usage of nades and flame barrages.
-DO NOT FLOAT man power on the first minutes of the game. Do not have idle units at this point.
-Focus more on the "macro" side of the game. When you focus too much in microing single units, you lose sight of what your other units are doing.

For the game review:
-You didn't lose to Penal spam. 3 Penals (2 with PTRS) is not spam. That is as much as Spam as you making 3 Volks, someone building 3 Grenadiers or someone getting 3 Rifles.
-Same with Shocktroops. You didn't lost to the "new" Shocks PPSH profile. You lost against someone spending their munition.
-Forget about double Sturms opening. Specially if you are still going to make Mech HQ for repairs.
-I'll say it again: use your munitions. Mines, flame nades, all Volks upgraded with STG. Get the minesweeper package if you need extra repairs, or get Panzerschreck if you need extra AT. Don't forget you have other abilities as well with your commander and veterancy.
Obers can put demos and use cancer smoke nade. Sturmpios get access to stun nades through vet. Vetted 223 get access to riegel mines.
Commander wise, the Panzer commander barrage is only useful against static unit. That's basically the only ability you mostly used during the game, against a mobile army. Use more heat shells and even Blitzkrieg (offensively or defensively).



16 Dec 2018, 10:06 AM
#6
avatar of Michalszym

Posts: 51

I'll focus on YOUR mistakes, not on the opponent ones.

1': double SP opening. You lose a lot of map presence early on. Leave that for specific 2v2+ strats with a partner.

2: you got a SwS HT with 2 SP and a single Volks. You started fighting mid range with a Penal (you waggle in and out) and when the 2nd SP joins the fight, he backs up, you chase and you end up getting baited into a sniper. You cross red cover and your opponent is intelligent enough to use the sniper on the fullhealth SP and the Penal on the wounded SP.
You managed to make the opponent retreat, but you suffer heavy casualties. 4 models of SP and you are extremely low on health on one of them (20%).
Meanwhile, your Volks grenadier which was making a sandbag at the beginning is sitting doing nothing. Your SwS is doing nothing and you are floating almost 500mp. You went for the 221 rush.

3:Nevertheless, you are still ahead on map presence.

4:You chase the sniper and killed it. Set waypoint for units been built, even if it's just barely outside your base. Your attention is only focused on 1 thing for quite some time, meanwhile the rest of your army is sitting doing nothing (2 SP, a forward SwS, 2 Volks).

5: While that kill on the sniper was fine, it forced you to focus your attention on the 221 and repairing it. Your single Volk in the field is fighting 2 Penals (1 with PTRS) and a CE. You went for the Medic HQ.
After some retreats, you are 50/50 with your opponent. He has the fuel lead (2 fuel points and no vehicle) but you managed to wipe the sniper.

9: don't float as much munitions unless you have a plan for it (200). Mines, finish all your Volks squads with STGs, use grenades.
Don't retreat an MG into a garrison against a Shock squad, you almost lost it to a grenade.
Don't build more than 1 sandbag segment. Leave multiple sandbags against each other against comp stomp.
At some point you got medics.

11: you have 0 AT. 10 mins into the game. Again, you have 0 AT. Any decent player would had exploit this weakness, 3 minutes ago.
In your mind you might think you are winning the game. But you are not pushing each time you force a retreat from your opponent.
You went for Mech HQ.

13: 750mp, 200f. You went for a repair upgrade.
Armies atm.
2 Volks STG, Volk, MG, 2 SP, 223. You are still floating as well 360muni
2 Shocktroops, 2 PTRS Penals, Penal, Engineer.
Also, don't rush SP against Shocktroops. First wipe of the game for you. Lost the unupgraded Volks to face to face Shocks and a PTRS Penal (which only landed the final blow).

15: you start making Flak HQ. Your opponent already has T4. Big fight lost. Your opponent is constantly using grenades, both frag and smoke, to spread your army out. You basically full retreat. At least keep your 223 on "cache mode", if you are not using it.

17: NEVER face plant an MG at fire range from enemy units. Specially if they have grenades as Shocks.

20: Reminder to use munition. 500 float at this point. You got a PIV. He got an IS2.
I'm seeing the pattern. You forget about the rest of the army while focusing on a single unit.
22: Pacic rak after seeing the IS2. A bad rally point made you lose it instantly to Shock + IS2.
24: Tried to recrew rak, while fighting, with no proper cover for it, lost it to a flame barrage. Lost a Volks to Penal + Shocks.
The sole reason you haven't already lost, is because your opponent didn't steal or destroy that rak.

At this point you are tilted and start using chat.

25: KV8 arrives. Melts your units away. Your army is now an MG, a SP, a Volk, an Ober, a PIV and a building PV. Not counting the 223 cache.
You are running units in front of the KV8 just to lose them.

28: You traded SP + Volk and your vetted PIV for the KV8. (Insert worst trade trump meme).
29: you went for the RNG roll with the PV against IS2. You were lucky. At some point you lost your MG. Your only infantry is a single model of an Ober. You called a Sturmtiger.

33: Sturmtiger teamkills your vetted Panther after it was double AT satcheled by Penals.
35: at this point he only lost a single sniper infantry wise. You lost 3 SP, 4 Volks, your rak got stolen and you "lost" 3 times your MG (you recrewed it). Vehicle wise: he lost an IS2 and KV8 and you lost PV and PIV.

Game keeps going on but the game was already over way before.


Conclusion:

-First of all, if you don't have any positive to say on chat, just "disable" it. It tilts you and makes you play worse.
-DO NOT FLOAT munition unless you have a wonderous muni call in such as the Stuka Strafe. One of the main reasons you lost, is that your opponent manage to stay below 100 muni for most of the game by the usage of nades and flame barrages.
-DO NOT FLOAT man power on the first minutes of the game. Do not have idle units at this point.
-Focus more on the "macro" side of the game. When you focus too much in microing single units, you lose sight of what your other units are doing.

For the game review:
-You didn't lose to Penal spam. 3 Penals (2 with PTRS) is not spam. That is as much as Spam as you making 3 Volks, someone building 3 Grenadiers or someone getting 3 Rifles.
-Same with Shocktroops. You didn't lost to the "new" Shocks PPSH profile. You lost against someone spending their munition.
-Forget about double Sturms opening. Specially if you are still going to make Mech HQ for repairs.
-I'll say it again: use your munitions. Mines, flame nades, all Volks upgraded with STG. Get the minesweeper package if you need extra repairs, or get Panzerschreck if you need extra AT. Don't forget you have other abilities as well with your commander and veterancy.
Obers can put demos and use cancer smoke nade. Sturmpios get access to stun nades through vet. Vetted 223 get access to riegel mines.
Commander wise, the Panzer commander barrage is only useful against static unit. That's basically the only ability you mostly used during the game, against a mobile army. Use more heat shells and even Blitzkrieg (offensively or defensively).




Thank you so much, I'll try to focus on correcting my mistakes. I have a bad temper, hencce my terrible chat.
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