Login

russian armor

Let's talk about the scott

PAGES (7)down
10 Dec 2018, 04:19 AM
#41
avatar of dk828315

Posts: 88

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2018, 19:39 PMGrumpy


Yes, please post name. I've been watching the 2v2 finals on Twitch and haven't seen anyone play the terribly OP USF. Did the elite players agree that USF was too OP to play in a tournament?

His in-game name is CPU-Non Standard, meet him a lot in 2v2. I don't believe he plays tournament, and why does everyone brings up tournaments and pro players all the time? Is this game built for pros or for the normal players?
10 Dec 2018, 04:37 AM
#42
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

Funny, a while ago I asked in the State Office how to counter this unit. We relegated to OKW Raketen Cheese, JT/Elefant, Stuka CAS, or mass armor dives.

I would say that the M8A1 Scott is overpowered. It is too survivable for a unit with such a reliable main gun.

I propose that we remove the M8A1's ability to auto-fire and attack ground. To compensate for this, I would decrease the cooldown of both the regular and the smoke barrage.

This would increase the micro tax of using the M8A1, and remove its ability to kite infantry and so effectively target units on the move.

I would argue that this would reduce the overall destructive power of the Scott, but it would still remain survivable and effective as an artillery unit. It would also increase the possibility of counter-play, as you can react and move out of the barrage area.
10 Dec 2018, 05:45 AM
#43
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

I propose that we remove the M8A1's ability to auto-fire and attack ground. To compensate for this, I would decrease the cooldown of both the regular and the smoke barrage.

This would increase the micro tax of using the M8A1, and remove its ability to kite infantry and so effectively target units on the move.


I think the scott is too strong and even I think this solution is too drastic. No mortar or mortar car or light howitzer has no auto attack.

I think a more elegant solution would be to give it some sort of set up and/or tear down mechanic, like the flak half track.
10 Dec 2018, 07:07 AM
#44
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

An idea of what I would change before throwing it to testing.

- Near AOE distance from 1 to 0.25
- Near AOE damage from 1 to 0.8
- Mid AOE from 0.25 to 0.3
- Far AOE distance from 3 to 4.
- Far AOE damage from 0.1 to 0.15
- HE barrage cooldown from 75 to 45.
- Smoke barrage cooldown from 60 to 35.
- Auto-Attack reload from 2.75/2.9 to 3.75/4
- Auto-Attack ready-aim time from 1.25 to 0.375

Damage drop-off would be 0.25/2/4 is 80/30/15
Damage drop-off previously at 1/2/3 was 100/25/10

Another AOE change to increase damage at distance and reduce drop-off in exchange for a much lower OHK radius. Buffing the barrage while nerfing the auto-fire is meant to make the M8 less effective at attrition when left to its own devices, but can support more readily. Also auto-attack is made more responsive on the first shot to compensate.


10 Dec 2018, 08:50 AM
#45
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954


His in-game name is CPU-Non Standard, meet him a lot in 2v2. I don't believe he plays tournament, and why does everyone brings up tournaments and pro players all the time? Is this game built for pros or for the normal players?


Relic tries for it to be balanced for everyone, but the focus is a little more towards 1v1 and the elite players.

People bring up tournaments and elite players because if things like double-Scotts were difficult to counter, we would see it in high-level play.

I remember the name CPU-Non Standard from a couple matches. I don't remember anything else about him, but would bet that he isn't any higher ranked than you. Also, as OKW, you have plenty of options for dealing with Scotts.
10 Dec 2018, 09:06 AM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

An idea of what I would change before throwing it to testing.

- Near AOE distance from 1 to 0.25
- Near AOE damage from 1 to 0.8
- Mid AOE from 0.25 to 0.3
- Far AOE distance from 3 to 4.
- Far AOE damage from 0.1 to 0.15
- HE barrage cooldown from 75 to 45.
- Smoke barrage cooldown from 60 to 35.
- Auto-Attack reload from 2.75/2.9 to 3.75/4
- Auto-Attack ready-aim time from 1.25 to 0.375

Damage drop-off would be 0.25/2/4 is 80/30/15
Damage drop-off previously at 1/2/3 was 100/25/10

Another AOE change to increase damage at distance and reduce drop-off in exchange for a much lower OHK radius. Buffing the barrage while nerfing the auto-fire is meant to make the M8 less effective at attrition when left to its own devices, but can support more readily. Also auto-attack is made more responsive on the first shot to compensate.

That would allow a vet 2 scott to barrage every 27 second while moving at the same time. Unit should be balanced at all vet level.

Lowering it damage out put is simply not enough.

The unit it simply to difficult to counter since it combines to many defensive properties like target size 19 too small to be hit by moving vehicles, speed 7 too fast for most vehicles to keep up, 400 HP and smoke.
10 Dec 2018, 09:37 AM
#47
avatar of Kurfürst

Posts: 144



Wow what? You can´t just dive for Scotts unless your opponent is braindead. They don´t die in one hit like rocket arty either. They actually have 400 HP which means you need 3 tank/at gun hits. In case of the Puma even 4. Plus they have smoke. All that makes Scotts really hard to kill if the USF player is somewhat competent and has a decent army that includes good enough TD options.


Another reason why the Panther needs to get 200 damage with corresponding RoF nerf, to be able to do its job.
10 Dec 2018, 09:46 AM
#48
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

An idea of what I would change before throwing it to testing.

- Near AOE distance from 1 to 0.25
- Near AOE damage from 1 to 0.8
- Mid AOE from 0.25 to 0.3
- Far AOE distance from 3 to 4.
- Far AOE damage from 0.1 to 0.15
- HE barrage cooldown from 75 to 45.
- Smoke barrage cooldown from 60 to 35.
- Auto-Attack reload from 2.75/2.9 to 3.75/4
- Auto-Attack ready-aim time from 1.25 to 0.375

Damage drop-off would be 0.25/2/4 is 80/30/15
Damage drop-off previously at 1/2/3 was 100/25/10

Another AOE change to increase damage at distance and reduce drop-off in exchange for a much lower OHK radius. Buffing the barrage while nerfing the auto-fire is meant to make the M8 less effective at attrition when left to its own devices, but can support more readily. Also auto-attack is made more responsive on the first shot to compensate.




I always thought scott's design wasn't to be a mobile arty such as the Priest but more a mix between rocket arty function such as Kat/Pzf/Stuka and the brumbar.
If really its function was to take down strucures with a Barrage it would had at least the pakHowizer vet barrage.

Scott's function is to bleed your opponent as much as a Kat or Brumbar but with its own gameplay, if you look at their end game stats, you don't see much difference if all are correctly used, and all are difficult to take down if properly defended.
And about this last point, scott high survivability is to put in line with the fact USF doesn't get stock mines, the unit need to have a chance to escape.

Last, if it is to make the scott what it is not supposed to be, just swap it with the Calliope. Make the Calliope stock and scott to the tactical commander.
10 Dec 2018, 09:49 AM
#49
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

So many people who don't play USF or have never played Axis (and hence never have to face USF) claiming the Scott isn't overperforming.

USF late game is definitely top tier, with only maybe Soviets being even somewhat comparable. USF late game comp is simply insane and the Scott is a major factor. Puma needs 5 shots to kill the Scott (assuming no misses...haha) and the Scott moves extremely fast so it can easily reverse while other units back it up, and even if you manage to trade 1 for 1 the Puma costs more than the Scott anyway.

The issue with USF is that early-mid game is so terrible vs OKW into Luchs, or vs snipers and Ost LVs, that generally getting to the late game is very very difficult. If USF early-mid issues ever get fixed through Riflemen buffs or through Axis factions no longer have dominating early-mid LV rushes, we'll start to see USF late-game really shine.
10 Dec 2018, 09:54 AM
#50
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1



Another reason why the Panther needs to get 200 damage with corresponding RoF nerf, to be able to do its job.


That would make the Panther beyond atrocious vs medium tanks. It might also become worse vs heavy tanks, depending on how much the ROF nerf is. It would probably need 220 damage and a significant (30%?) ROF nerf, which would be a major rework of the Panther.
10 Dec 2018, 10:02 AM
#51
avatar of Kurfürst

Posts: 144



That would make the Panther beyond atrocious vs medium tanks. It might also become worse vs heavy tanks, depending on how much the ROF nerf is. It would probably need 220 damage and a significant (30%?) ROF nerf, which would be a major rework of the Panther.


But you already have StuG / JpPz if mediums trouble you. Panther would still do fine, as its stil superior, plus its 3 shots and a faust vs mediums vs 4 shots.

Panther's primary role should be different, a tank hunter counter to heavies/800 HP prediums/deleter of lights. The point of such change would be to make it effective in these roles, instead being just one weird one which isn't really suited for any task particularly.
10 Dec 2018, 10:07 AM
#52
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 609

Panther has just been fixed - let’s not break it again
10 Dec 2018, 10:07 AM
#53
avatar of Van Der Bolt

Posts: 91

I don't know, but it seems like I play a different game or play it wrong. When i take 2 scotts it takes ages for them to actually wipe MGs, ATG, bunkers. And vs massed MGs it's not very useful, the OST for example uses halftrack to reinforce them, and scotts bleed enemy MP a little, but not more. Katy, or Panzerwerfer, stuka have the Burst damage effect - they can crush enemy positions fast, giving the enemy "move or die" choice, and that punishes massed support weapons. Scotts can be annoying, but they cannot clear space for offence...
10 Dec 2018, 10:20 AM
#54
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2018, 10:07 AMArray
Panther has just been fixed - let’s not break it again

not really.
10 Dec 2018, 10:20 AM
#55
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

It works like leFH or all other artillery units beside Katjusha, Panzerwerfer and Stuka-zu-Fuß. Permanent bleeding, not peeking one time with longer intervals.
10 Dec 2018, 10:28 AM
#56
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Does anybody have any replays/casts that can support argument that Scott overperforming?

I've used them and they felt okayish, but nothing special. Just highly mobile mortar that comes in latest tier with 70 fuel price.
10 Dec 2018, 10:32 AM
#57
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Does anybody have any replays/casts that can support argument that Scott overperforming?

I've used them and they felt okayish, but nothing special. Just highly mobile mortar that comes in latest tier with 70 fuel price.

Read post 8 the comparison with mortar is completely false. (orange and apples one might say)
10 Dec 2018, 10:43 AM
#58
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Does anybody have any replays/casts that can support argument that Scott overperforming?

I've used them and they felt okayish, but nothing special. Just highly mobile mortar that comes in latest tier with 70 fuel price.


In comparison with Priest they arn't op. I also don't understand the proble. s with scott.
10 Dec 2018, 11:11 AM
#59
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

So many people who don't play USF or have never played Axis (and hence never have to face USF) claiming the Scott isn't overperforming.

USF late game is definitely top tier, with only maybe Soviets being even somewhat comparable. USF late game comp is simply insane and the Scott is a major factor. Puma needs 5 shots to kill the Scott (assuming no misses...haha) and the Scott moves extremely fast so it can easily reverse while other units back it up, and even if you manage to trade 1 for 1 the Puma costs more than the Scott anyway.

The issue with USF is that early-mid game is so terrible vs OKW into Luchs, or vs snipers and Ost LVs, that generally getting to the late game is very very difficult. If USF early-mid issues ever get fixed through Riflemen buffs or through Axis factions no longer have dominating early-mid LV rushes, we'll start to see USF late-game really shine.


Relic just had a 2v2 tournament with COH2's largest cash prizes ever. Why wasn't there any of this top tier USF there? Nobody wanted the $10,000 that would've been so easy to take with double-Scott's and USF's shining late game?
10 Dec 2018, 11:30 AM
#60
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Does anybody have any replays/casts that can support argument that Scott overperforming?

I've used them and they felt okayish, but nothing special. Just highly mobile mortar that comes in latest tier with 70 fuel price.


Someone mentioned CPU-Standard, I've played with him some games on 2vs2, the guy has a really aggressive playstyle, so if you're not prepared he can roll over you easily but that's definitively not because of the scott.
PAGES (7)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

672 users are online: 672 guests
3 posts in the last 24h
4 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Registered members: 48722
Welcome our newest member, asherllc
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM