In my opinion the veterancy for p4s is much more useful.Biltzkrieg is great in a fight and the t 34 gets the ability to capture points .The biggest problem is vet 2 for p4s.Their armour then only rarely can be penetrated by a t34 .
Does vet 2 for the p4 need a nerf and vet 1 for the t 34 a buff ?
veterancy for p4 and t34/76
7 Sep 2013, 12:48 PM
#1
Posts: 120
7 Sep 2013, 13:20 PM
#2
4 
Posts: 369
The game is not just about T34s and PIVs. A T34 might have trouble penetrating the PIV but clearly the T34s role never was to destroy PIVs, you have SU85s for that. I do agree that the vet 1 of Russian tanks is completely useless though.
7 Sep 2013, 15:39 PM
#3
Posts: 120
penetrating the PIV but clearly the T34s role never was to destroy PIVs, you have SU85s for that.When you build t 3 in 1v1 you have to fight p4 with t34ss.It is possible but not when a p4 gets vet 2 that happens in tankbattles between t 34s and p4s .
7 Sep 2013, 15:46 PM
#4
Posts: 74
I dont think the P4 vet 2 does nothing to it's armor although it would appear so by the asthetic change. Instead it reduces damage taken, making shots that do penetrate do much less often giving the impression that it was bounced. It is extremely strong on all the German vehicles particularly the p4 and the halftrack.
7 Sep 2013, 17:42 PM
#5
Posts: 978
It is extremely strong on all the German vehicles particularly the p4 and the halftrack.It´s tough but not too tough. A small reminder: Vet2 on a SU-85 enables the vehicle to kill StuGs with two shots. If you kept your Panzer IV alive for so long (it reaches vet2 with roughly 40 infantry kills or some vehicle kills), it deserves this buff.
7 Sep 2013, 19:31 PM
#6
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
It´s tough but not too tough. A small reminder: Vet2 on a SU-85 enables the vehicle to kill StuGs with two shots. If you kept your Panzer IV alive for so long (it reaches vet2 with roughly 40 infantry kills or some vehicle kills), it deserves this buff.
Small reminder: why on earth would you fight SU85s with StuGs? It's rather like using T70s to counter PIVs.
The 0.45 received damage is freaking ridiculous on halftracks, though to be honest you've generally already lost the game if they have enough kills to hit vet2. A 700 HP (5 hits from an SU85) extremely high damage and high mobility unit is just as silly as the KV8 that some axis players love to cry about. It's pretty damn hilarious on all the blitzkrieg tanks too, because coupled with vehicle smoke it effectively means you'd have to really royally screw up to ever get one killed.
The SU85 is pretty much the only soviet vehicle that benefits more from the soviet veterancy, because it actually has the range and penetration to make use of it. With any other unit I'd swap for the axis veterancy (even if it didn't come with blitzkrieg) in a heartbeat.
10 Sep 2013, 06:39 AM
#7
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned Sov Vet 2 dmg and hp buff is equivalent asymmetrically to the Ost Vet2 hp buff. At V3, the factions equal out entirely.
I dont see any problem there.
As to Vet abilities, we havent had a vet ability patch yet. I strongly suspect Blitz will lose the RoF buff in that. The speed is sufficient. Bad policy for buffs to have more than 1 effect. Sov vet ability is situational, but fine imo.
I dont see any problem there.
As to Vet abilities, we havent had a vet ability patch yet. I strongly suspect Blitz will lose the RoF buff in that. The speed is sufficient. Bad policy for buffs to have more than 1 effect. Sov vet ability is situational, but fine imo.
10 Sep 2013, 07:50 AM
#8
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
yea like everyones saying, vet doesnt increase armor. so t34s will penetrate just as often when the p4 has vet. vet2 just gives german vehicles a .45 recieved damage modifier.
vet 3 on both tanks doesnt actually balance out though, but this seems to be a bug. i was just talking to pqumsieh about it tonight. germans have .45 recieved damage and 1.78 damage dealt at vet 3. soviets get .525 damage recieved and 1.78 damage dealt. so its close, but not quite.
vet 3 on both tanks doesnt actually balance out though, but this seems to be a bug. i was just talking to pqumsieh about it tonight. germans have .45 recieved damage and 1.78 damage dealt at vet 3. soviets get .525 damage recieved and 1.78 damage dealt. so its close, but not quite.
10 Sep 2013, 08:05 AM
#9
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned Thanks for the data.
So does that modifier mean Ost or Sov dmg reduction is bigger?
So does that modifier mean Ost or Sov dmg reduction is bigger?
10 Sep 2013, 08:17 AM
#10
Posts: 952
Ostheer damage reduction would be larger, though a 0.0525 difference would be incredibly small anyway.
10 Sep 2013, 08:43 AM
#11
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Ostheer damage reduction would be larger, though a 0.0525 difference would be incredibly small anyway.
hm? its a .075 difference. all you have to do is multiply that modifier by the damage the vehicle would have taken. so for example a vet 3 german vehicle getting hit by an AT gun would on take 160*.45=72 damage. a vet 3 soviet vehicle hit by the same gun would take 160*.525=84 damage.
that seems small but it actually does matter. a vet3 p4 would take 9 penetrating hits at 72 damage to kill it. a vet 3 su85 would take 8 penetrating hits. so one extra hit may buy a tank an extra 4 seconds or more. but like i said, pqumsieh is aware of it. should get changed eventually.
10 Sep 2013, 10:07 AM
#12
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedStrange discrepancy...
I suppose if metrics produced that small variance (ie: its somehow justified as the result of test beds), just to keep things complicated, they could raise Sov dmg increase by the same proportion.
Hate little deviances like this. Make informed and intuitive discussion of balance mich more difficult.
Thanks very much for the data though.
I suppose if metrics produced that small variance (ie: its somehow justified as the result of test beds), just to keep things complicated, they could raise Sov dmg increase by the same proportion.
Hate little deviances like this. Make informed and intuitive discussion of balance mich more difficult.
Thanks very much for the data though.
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