T34-76 in Tier 4

I think its costs too much fuel just to get to Tier 4 , then you have less fuel for the t34-76 or the SU 85 .

90 fuel to get to t4 is too much .

I think it has a bit to do with T34/85s being buildable through the T4 instead of being a callin unit. (Or at least I think both those changes occurred at the same time.) They kept the T34s together.

But the main thing is that The T3 and T4 is problematic with the timing of tanks for both Soviets and Ostheer. Ostheer with the StuG/P4/Panther placement. One always overshadows the other when in the same tier.

For Soviets, the T34/76 and the T34/85 are hard to incorporate into the tiers with the SU-76 and T70 to consider along with the SU-85. The T34/76 in T3 supercedes the T70 and SU-76, and the T34/85 being doctrinal complicates its availability in either T3 or T4.

Both the original factions would benefit greatly from at least one ".5" tier inbetween the final tiers. For Soviets, a T3 upgrade to unlock T34/76s (as a cheaper alternative to going T4) would probably work out well. For the Ostheer it could be the same, or as simple as having (for example) the P4 in T3, but only available after teching the final battle phase.

You've got light tanks and vehicles, mediums, then heavies, all trying to cram into the timing of two tech tiers.

For the Ostheer it could be the same, or as simple as having (for example) the P4 in T3, but only available after teching the final battle phase.

what. Why. NO.

First, don't fix what isn't broken.
Second, this could be implemented if there was a Panzer 3 in the game and it was placed in T2 with side tech.

T34/76 does NOT supercede the SU76. SU76 is a mobile ZiS-3 gun. It is in no way shape or form to be used in the same manner as T34/76.

what. Why. NO.

First, don't fix what isn't broken.
Second, this could be implemented if there was a Panzer 3 in the game and it was placed in T2 with side tech.

T34/76 does NOT supercede the SU76. SU76 is a mobile ZiS-3 gun. It is in no way shape or form to be used in the same manner as T34/76.

The SU76 is like the stug III but more AI and less AT.

Zis dmg =160
SU76 dmg= 120

I don't recall ever seeing a 34/76 in my four months of CoH2.

I don't recall ever seeing a 34/76 in my four months of CoH2.

Because it's a I lose button.

Manpower is crazy expensive for this piece of crap when it can lose to a puma.

I'd be fine with it returning to T3. Paks, fausts, shreks, and mines can hold it off, so timing shouldn't be a problem.

I agree it would be nicer in t3, and something about the su76 I really don't like, or maybe t34 could just use a buff. I mean it was one of the most iconic tanks of the war and barely seen in game.

I agree it would be nicer in t3, and something about the su76 I really don't like, or maybe t34 could just use a buff. I mean it was one of the most iconic tanks of the war and barely seen in game.

To be fair, the multiplayer scene takes place during at least mid 1943 (Kursk and the like), and by this point the T-34/76's advantage in protection and firepower were being negated by all manner of high velocity German weapons. The T34/76 had it's heyday in Operation Uranus, afterwards it became increasingly outclassed by it's German counters.

I agree it would be nicer in t3, and something about the su76 I really don't like, or maybe t34 could just use a buff. I mean it was one of the most iconic tanks of the war and barely seen in game.

We'd probably just go back to having the problem with wondering why get a T-70 when you could save up just a bit to get a T-34 that's twice as hard to kill.

To be fair, the multiplayer scene takes place during at least mid 1943 (Kursk and the like), and by this point the T-34/76's advantage in protection and firepower were being negated by all manner of high velocity German weapons. The T34/76 had it's heyday in Operation Uranus, afterwards it became increasingly outclassed by it's German counters.

True, but the Soviets can only use weaponry dated before 1943 without doctrines instead of raining PPSh-41s onto their infantry.

Can't even use DShK 1938s without a doctrine :-\

Can we all agree the t34 comes too late, arriving at a time where it is too expensive to spam, yet not strong enough to justify the micro required to keep it alive and deal decent damage?

Sadly I don't see an easy solution to the issue. Returning it to t3 (possibly with a research requirement), lowering the cost of t4, or buffing its stats relative to cost all seem too complicated to implement at this stage and could end up creating as many problems as they would solve.

What reason did Relic give for moving it to tier 4? Considering how well the Su-76 performs now, there is almost no reason to bother with T34/76s. Tier 4 is virtually only used for the Katusha and SU-85.

I'd say it needs further price decrease. T34/76 should be cheap to be viable to spam.

Also soviet t4 really needs to extra stuff like side tech for like conscript ppsh or dp28.

We'd probably just go back to having the problem with wondering why get a T-70 when you could save up just a bit to get a T-34 that's twice as hard to kill.

True, but the Soviets can only use weaponry dated before 1943 without doctrines instead of raining PPSh-41s onto their infantry.

Can't even use DShK 1938s without a doctrine :-\

Technically, the Su-85 is a 1943 era unit.

In terms of machine-guns, there never really was an alternative to dhsks and maxims for the red army. If the dhsk was the main heavy mg, than there would be nothing for the lend-lease doctrine (although putting m2hb .50 in there could be interesting to reduce soviet dependence on regular mgs).

As for the majority of the rest of the equipment, technically this was the best the soviets had when Kursk rolled around. Soviet infantry never really received much in the way of upgrades, unlike their German counterparts.

As for the majority of the rest of the equipment, technically this was the best the soviets had when Kursk rolled around. Soviet infantry never really received much in the way of upgrades, unlike their German counterparts.

The Soviets were definitely friggin' rolling in PPSh-41s by 1943. A PPSh for half your frontline infantry squads was probably a figure a fair bit closer to real life than an MG42 for every 4 men.

SU is just a messy victim of power/feature creep. Cheap and underperforming units. Severe commander dependence.

SU is just a messy victim of power/feature creep. Cheap and underperforming units. Severe commander dependence.

That's not them being victims of power creep, it's literally how they've been the whole time. Sometimes worse. Thing is, now that there are Allied factions with good (or in the case of the Brits, salvageable) basic designs, they just look that much worse for it. And good thing, too. When I say the Soviets need a redesign, I don't mean just shuffle around a few units. Ideally, Relic needs to step back and change the entire faction's progression around completely in order to bring them in line without overbuffing them. Of course, that will never happen.

Someone had the idea to put in the t34/76 via side upgrade of T3. Same could be done with ostheers light vehicle Problem.

I really like the idea of a side upgrade for both Vanilla factions.

Replace the 76 with the 85, everyone knows its the dam solution to a lot of problems of the faction.

Still advocating for 76/85 swap or 200mp 76s