Potential armies at pop cap

The problem:
I think there is a problem with the amount of population heavy tanks are using at the moment. Currently, the amount of units needed to counter the axis late game isn't viable within the population limit. These units may be decently balanced, resource cost wise, but late game, resources are often not very limiting.

A tiger, for example, uses up the same amount of pop cap as 2 t34s. An elefant uses up about the same amount of pop as 2 su85s (25 vs 24). A king tiger is less than 2 t34/85s (26 vs 28). And 2 Panthers is less than 3 SU85s (32 vs 36).

I think that instead of the approximately linear relationship between cost and population, it should increase in a more exponential fashion. Hopefully this will counter act the fact that larger units have less resource bleed than spamming medium vehicles.

Proposed Changes:

Panthers: 16 > 20
Panther Command Tank: 18 > 22
Strum Tiger: 18 > 24
IS2 and Tiger: 24 > 30
Elefant and ISU152: 25 > 34
King Tiger: 26 > 36
Jagd Tiger: 26(?!) > 42

Proposed Changes:

Panthers: 16 > 20
Panther Command Tank: 18 > 22
Strum Tiger: 18 > 24
IS2 and Tiger: 24 > 30
Elefant and ISU152: 25 > 34
King Tiger: 26 > 36
Jagd Tiger: 26(?!) > 42

Your idea could have some merit if you hadn't blatantly put ridiculous pop cap amounts for some of those tanks.

Jagdtiger 42pop?! I mean are you joking or serious? No one gets two Jagdtigers anyway adn the most manageable pop for most people is 50 anyway so this wouldn't really affect it getting out.

You want to make max pop armies even smaller than they already are? No way, I say.

I think he has made some good points, but i disagree with the changes. it would be too liiting

Maybe it should go another way: to decrease some values of medium armour, at guns and infantry.

Proposed Changes:

Panthers: 16 > 20
Panther Command Tank: 18 > 22
Strum Tiger: 18 > 24
IS2 and Tiger: 24 > 30
Elefant and ISU152: 25 > 34
King Tiger: 26 > 36
Jagd Tiger: 26(?!) > 42

Nerf all Axis tanks. So allies can outnumber them 10:1

Yeap number one problem are panthers and strum tiger, lets fhuk them too! Even one of these two are not even a heavy tank...

Decent idea, but different approach is needed

mod delete this post pls

Jagdtiger 42pop?! I mean are you joking or serious? No one gets two Jagdtigers anyway adn the most manageable pop for most people is 50 anyway so this wouldn't really affect it getting out.

The Jagdtiger is considered a big enough problem that Relic was going to make you shoot it manually every 8 seconds. And yet, if I suggest that you can have the Jagdtiger, as is, with the one exception that you must have one or two less units late game, then I must be joking.

And if you are only using 50 pop in your games, then this change wouldn't make any difference to you what so ever. In games where all teams are sitting at pop cap however, this will make a difference. This is a way to leave the axis untouched for most of the game, and yet still limit their late game potential (where the problem is).

Yeap number one problem are panthers and strum tiger, lets fhuk them too! Even one of these two are not even a heavy tank...

Decent idea, but different approach is needed

Panthers feel very strong for 16 pop. No allied unit has as much impact for 16 pop. I think panthers are decently balanced cost wise though. I mentioned the Sturmtiger merely for consistency.

Nerf all Axis tanks. So allies can outnumber them 10:1

Heavy tanks would be outnumbered. And that would only be in the very late game. Before that, the prices will still be the same, so it will still be 2 t34s for every Tiger. If you don't want to be outnumbered, you could always build medium tanks. I think it would be great if players actually had to make a choice late game, between heavy and medium tanks, instead of just always getting the biggest vehicle possible.

The Jagdtiger is considered a big enough problem that Relic was going to make you shoot it manually every 8 seconds. And yet, if I suggest that you can have the Jagdtiger, as is, with the one exception that you must have one or two less units late game, then I must be joking.

Relic considered it and reversed it saying the change was too extreme so you must be joking.

Heavy tanks would be outnumbered. And that would only be in the very late game. Before that, the prices will still be the same, so it will still be 2 t34s for every Tiger. If you don't want to be outnumbered, you could always build medium tanks. I think it would be great if players actually had to make a choice late game, between heavy and medium tanks, instead of just always getting the biggest vehicle possible.

OKW has no medium armor (except for Jagdpanzer IV which is ridiculously expensive for their economy). Allowing Allies to more medium tanks would just skew the game in their favor.

I understand you are trying to combat the heavy tank spam fest in higher player games, but this is not the best way to do it.

I agree that pop limits are messed up. I don't agree that it can resolved simply through increasing heavy pop costs. Relic has already acknowledged that the way heavies are, if you don't have a heavy (USF), then you need to coordinate a much larger effort with mediums and other units.

I can say that I have lost some larger team games due to hitting the max pop and not being able to field enough medium armor to do what I wanted as USF, despite say a 3k mp float and some triple digit fuel number. When I play OST I don't seem to hit the pop cap. As Soviet I do hit pop, but my army is pretty well equipped to handle most situations and float is generally less.

Re-evaluating the pop costs is the best way to balance out the current armor meta without stat hits.

If not being able to outnumber heavy tanks with mediums is a concern to you then why not suggest the pop of medium tanks be reduced?

As for me I think the popcap of 100 is too small.

If not being able to outnumber heavy tanks with mediums is a concern to you then why not suggestion the pop of medium tanks be reduced?

As for me I think the popcap of 100 is too small.

You could go about it by reducing the pop of medium tanks. I suggested this way round because I think the medium tank pop numbers make sense relative to the infantry, so you'd have to adjust all those too in order to remain consistent. And when you think about how much you could potentially field for 100 pop, something like 5 cons, 5 t34s and an at gun already sounds like a decent size force. Where as, 2 KTs, a Jagdtiger and 3-4 volks sounds very extravagant (to me).

I think an argument for a larger pop cap could also be made, but unless it was going to be so large that people wouldn't actually hit it, I think this would still be an issue.