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[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

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22 Dec 2020, 20:28 PM
#801
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Does the ram still utterly waste the T34? Any chance for the 75% slow and weapon disable to apply to both target and rammer? (Both are eating equal force, and the T34 is now horrifically far forwards).
22 Dec 2020, 21:07 PM
#802
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

Mod team too afraid of touching ram huh? :D
22 Dec 2020, 21:08 PM
#803
avatar of Dharx

Posts: 83

Reasonable changes, but the 10 % accuracy nerf should be reverted as well, conscripts weren't really dangerous even at 7m vet3, ppsh upgrade is still overpriced and outdated, and SVT cons don't scale so well compared to 7m cons. The nerf is misplaced.
22 Dec 2020, 21:27 PM
#804
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2020, 21:08 PMDharx
and SVT cons don't scale so well compared to 7m cons.

The way I see it SVT Cons are supposed to be good and come out fast. After all, SVT Cons are better than StG Volks. It doesn't strike me as an upgrade designed for late game scaling, unlike 7-man.
22 Dec 2020, 21:42 PM
#805
avatar of Dharx

Posts: 83

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2020, 21:27 PMSpoof

The way I see it SVT Cons are supposed to be good and come out fast. After all, SVT Cons are better than StG Volks. It doesn't strike me as an upgrade designed for late game scaling, unlike 7-man.


Sure, no issues there, I was mentioning that just because I've seen SVT dps being cited as the reason for the nerf.
23 Dec 2020, 00:14 AM
#806
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Overall way better direction for changes. The only change i miss is making the T34 getting only engine dmg/heavy engine dmg (still main gun destroy).


I understand the reasons behind the Con vet nerf, but i wonder if it isn't easier to adjust the cover bonus behind the 7 man upgrade/SVTs in general rather than nerfing the vet which also affects other types of Cons (PPSH/PTRS).
23 Dec 2020, 01:00 AM
#807
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Revert the cons vet nerf and nerf svt... no point nerfing cons since it affects other cons types aswell...

Rest of the changes are better... though the base T-34 would still need buffs/adjustment since ram got a nerf...

Consider making t3 for sov cheaper aswell since you already gutted the T70 pretty hard...
23 Dec 2020, 03:28 AM
#808
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

Mod team too afraid of touching ram huh? :D


Yeah, apparently there are no balls. This is the fourth iteration of a silly and unnecessary ram change.
23 Dec 2020, 03:30 AM
#809
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1



Yeah, apparently there are no balls. This is the fourth iteration of a silly and unnecessary ram change.


they backpedal out of changing section upgrade system, too. After all, the chance to get meaningful work on certain issues is being wasted.
23 Dec 2020, 03:54 AM
#810
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

V4 changes

Soviets


Cool changes;the grenade upgrade package feels like a way overdue fix by itself :)
23 Dec 2020, 05:33 AM
#811
avatar of Goldenpunch

Posts: 124



Yeah, apparently there are no balls. This is the fourth iteration of a silly and unnecessary ram change.


Mod team too afraid of touching ram huh? :D



V4 changes is cool. Why you are trying to make this topic look like a personel issue ? Is it worth to atack some person over a silly video game ? Your immoral atack on balance team must be condemned. So watch your manners fellas.
23 Dec 2020, 05:55 AM
#812
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2






V4 changes is cool. Why you are trying to make this topic look like a personel issue ? Is it worth to atack some person over a silly video game ? Your immoral atack on balance team must be condemned. So watch your manners fellas.


Let's be clear. Ram is a stupid ability that doesn't fit the current faction design. The abilities and first veterancy of the T-34-76 and T-34-85 had to be reworked several years ago. When the heavy tanks were being reworked, the T-34s were not reworked. And now, instead of finally making the T-34's abilities more adequate and appropriate to their roles, I see the fourth iteration of the ramming ability - these actions are ridiculous.
23 Dec 2020, 08:20 AM
#813
avatar of VonManteuffel

Posts: 97

Sorry guys, but why should the Cons Accuracy nerf be reverted? The balance team did absolutely right. Cons are the cheapiest inf squad with the possibilty to get 7 men. In late game, they are not meant to stand their ground versus other infantry. There is a reason why cons can merge, build sandbags, lay flares and have AT and AI nades. Their only purpose later on is to support team weapons, hold flanks and make suicide rushes for AT nades and own flanking attacks with Urah. Either Volks and Grens with StG and LMG should definitely outperform cons, not only because of their higher MP reinforcement costs but also their Ammo weapon upgrades.

For that reason the removing of the +10 Accuracy at Vet3 is defintely the right way.
23 Dec 2020, 10:32 AM
#815
avatar of Dharx

Posts: 83

In late game, they are not meant to stand their ground versus other infantry.


Based on what? Since the beta they were designed around horrible starting stats but exceptional veterancy. Their efficient vet3 performance is designed to make up for their lack of damage output throughout the early and mid game, and the manpower bleed they cause with their received accuracy malus.

But even with current vet bonuses, cons are still not exceptionally strong in the late game, as 7m vet3 cons lose against double bren/bar vet3 tommies/rifles at pretty much every range and cover, and those units are actually dominant mainlines even in early and mid game. Cons outperform Volks at medium/long range in the late game when in cover, but they seriously struggle against them in the midgame and OKW has other stock infantry options that make short work of cons. Standard LMG grens can't defeat 7m vet3 cons even at long range when both are fighting in cover, and that I agree is a problem, but I believe there is a general consensus that the issue there is lackluster gren performance.

Cons need to be able to stand up to infantry in the late game, because SOV have otherwise trouble mantaining map presence. No durable mediums, no late game vehicle with AI killing power like Brummy/Sherman/P4, no stock elite infantry, ZIS barrage and Katy getting nerfed... SOV can't win engagements with mean looks alone, they need to have some firepower. Especially considering that they typically need to turn around VP disadvantage from mid game.
23 Dec 2020, 11:04 AM
#816
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 10:32 AMDharx


Based on what? Since the beta they were designed around horrible starting stats but exceptional veterancy.
Their efficient vet3 performance is designed to make up for their lack of damage output throughout the early and mid game, and the manpower bleed they cause with their received accuracy malus.

MR upgrade was not available at beta their vet bonuses where designed with out it thus they superior to that of the other units. Now that MR is available it only natural their bonuses get toned down.

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 10:32 AMDharx

But even with current vet bonuses, cons are still not exceptionally strong in the late game, as 7m vet3 cons lose against double bren/bar vet3 tommies/rifles at pretty much every range and cover, and those units are actually dominant mainlines even in early and mid game. Cons outperform Volks at medium/long range in the late game when in cover, but they seriously struggle against them in the midgame and OKW has other stock infantry options that make short work of cons. Standard LMG grens can't defeat 7m vet3 cons even at long range when both are fighting in cover, and that I agree is a problem, but I believe there is a general consensus that the issue there is lackluster gren performance.

Conscripts do not fight "against double bren/bar vet3 tommies/rifles" and they preice range is not even close.

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 10:32 AMDharx

Cons need to be able to stand up to infantry in the late game, because SOV have otherwise trouble mantaining map presence. No durable mediums, no late game vehicle with AI killing power like Brummy/Sherman/P4, no stock elite infantry, ZIS barrage and Katy getting nerfed... SOV can't win engagements with mean looks alone, they need to have some firepower. Especially considering that they typically need to turn around VP disadvantage from mid game.

No they do not. Soviet have access to a numerous other infatry and units and conscripts are supposed to everything.

23 Dec 2020, 11:13 AM
#817
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:04 AMVipper

Conscripts do not fight "against double bren/bar vet3 tommies/rifles" and they preice range is not even close.


yeah instead they fight obersoldaten fallschirmjagers pgrens and stormtroopers....

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:04 AMVipper

No they do not. Soviet have access to a numerous other infatry and units and conscripts are supposed to everything.


yes of course the soviets have penals (which suck) and doctrinal shit... if you wanna make conscripts support infantry fine make those doctrinal elites nondoc otherwise shut it...
23 Dec 2020, 11:17 AM
#818
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:13 AMgbem


yeah instead they fight obersoldaten fallschirmjagers pgrens and stormtroopers....

I suggest you play OKW and try to fight double Bren tommies, Guards, Airborne Guards, Paras, Ranger with VG and let us know how well they do.

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:13 AMgbem

yes of course the soviets have penals (which suck) and doctrinal shit... if you wanna make conscripts support infantry fine make those doctrinal elites nondoc otherwise

This is not about what I want but what MOD team does.

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:13 AMgbem

shut it...

Pls stop comment like this.
23 Dec 2020, 11:20 AM
#819
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:17 AMVipper

I suggest you play OKW and try to fight double Bren tommies, Guards, Airborne Guards, Paras, Ranger with VG and let us know how well they do.


i dont... if i see elites i use obers... what does SOV have if conscripts get nerfed? nothing?

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:17 AMVipper

This is not about what I want but what MOD team does.


then the mod team is making terrible choices... in any case stop defending those terrible choices...

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:17 AMVipper

Pls stop comment like this.


pls stop commenting
23 Dec 2020, 11:22 AM
#820
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:20 AMgbem

i dont... if i see elites i use obers... what does SOV have if conscripts get nerfed? nothing?

then the mod team is making terrible choices... in any case stop defending those terrible choices...

pls stop commenting

The whole reason for this thread is for people to provide their feedback and commends.
Sorry I can't do that.
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