• At guns need a moderate chance to damage engine when they reduce a vehicles health below 50%, shots need to hit 90-95% of the time, this will help killing units such as the t70 or ostwind. This will also off set the chance that faust and at nade reduced ability to do engine damage.
• Massed inf should be able to quickly kill outnumbers squads – it seems that soviet inf can just walk right into a a large group of ost inf, and button/nade and take very little casualties. This just makes for boring games where no tactical considerations need to be made. I don’t mention ost here as the small squad size makes and expensive reinforce ( as well as lack of abilities like molatov, button ect) make this sort of approach much less common and much more harshly punished.
• At nades / faust need to do higher damage with smaller chance to crit engine ( perhaps starting from 50% health and having more chance the less healt the vehicle has). Having soviets with at nades is like getting rifles with stickes by default. This sort of things enables there to be 0 drawback from doing a 5-6 conscript start, in vcoh this sort of play could be heavily punished with pumas, stuh, or mgs and mortars ect. But on coh with the at nade meaning light vehicles have smaller impact, and nerfed mgs means they are useless, making it it’s a solid strat. This would mean that cons would not be the chouice for soviet infantry 100% of the time, giving penals and other troop types a chance t shine.
• Stop 1 shot ATgun kill for armoured car.. that’s just unnecessary, should do 85% damage with chance to damage engine or something.
• Make mortars more predictable with where they are going to hit, not some random bs that requires absolutely no strategy.. the barrage ability should be the one which is most used – being able to judge where the enemy is going to be should be rewarded, while the passive shots should be slower firing to encourage to use the active ability. Having units just sit there and shoot passively for maximum damage is just poor design. This should also take distance from target into effect, meaning the further the bigger the spread ( which would be offset by vet)
• Mgs need to suppress squads within the field of fire, and do so quickly, the tactic of the front rush to the mg should stop any squad/s dead in its tracks, but in turn mgs should be much more vulnerable to flanks meaning that anyone who pulls of a good one will be rewarded with a instant retreat or a decrew.
• Make mgs set up in houses faster, but let them lock onto units automatically, so you can draw fire with another squad and run with with a nade.
• Houses need to be fixed, let them collapse only with 25% health or less, also units in houses need to take more damage as currently it favours molatov equipped troops and stalls the game.
• Change the mechanic for rifle nades and Molotov’s, make the rife nade harder to aim ( create a small cone shaped reticle which does some point damage upon impact but shoots shrapnel in a cone like manner ( similar to canister round from the Stuart tank) this would mean that it’s easier to dodge as it’s a narrow damage area but units caught in it would take heavy casualties to reward good use. Molatovs should do no upfront damage, this would mean they would be more suitable for getting units out of cover, bunkers and buildings and not spammed openly all game long. These sort of abilities become the standard attack and its just not good play. Units that are undergoing the animation of molatov/rifle nade/ at nade/faust should be able to be sniped cancelling the ability and not refunding the muni cost to reward good sniper micro.
• Rework the vet system – that is make it harder to get vet 2-3, and only give 10% to damage taken ( a unit should not be heavily rewarded for being used as target practice) and, it should get 30% of the damage caused to experience vet but 100% of experience for kills. This means that units that kill units get full reward and those that only deal damage vet up but in a fashion that is only at 1/3 of the speed delaying vet for ineffective squads. I don’t like seeing a fully vetted army about 20 mins into the game.. it reduces the reward for being a great player.
• Give tanks side armour, and rear armour stats to reward flanking or getting off good shots. Tanks shouldn’t struggle to penetrate the rear armour of the su85 for instance. Give tanks the ability to crit engines after 50% of the enemies vehicle life is gone, this would reduce the ability of tanks taking lots of damage then using magic smoke and getting out of danger, or units like the su 85 just reversing as they get shot only to miraculously escape with 10% and getting vet 2 in the process. If you mess up your play you should be taking a huge risk right now risk is mitigated.
• Fix up grenades of all types.. its so RNG related that there is no skill in using and certainly no reference point. Use nades in vcoh as reference point. Something like the bundle nade should be able to absolutely wipe squads- to make this fair it should have a longer set up time, meaning it could be dodged if the player is alert. This would mean there is finally a way to decrew soviet 6 man teams. It would also not allow the pgren to run up into fire, and bundle nade as by then they would be taking serious casualties. Shock troops should no get the standard nade ability but get a grenade that does more stun and less damage, so they could surprise weapon crews, stun them and then clear them out. Currently they are so powerful. They can run through a whole army, kill along the way and throw their nades before retreating and taking very little damage.
• The button ability is active the squad should not be able to use their at rifles to encource the use of the ability to ensnare a vehicle to be despatched by other troops.
• 2 or more pak guns should be able to trigger the pakturm ability allowing you to combine fire both guns on 1 vehicles, which is what the Germans use to do to make sure their guns got kills every volley. This would offset the soviets anti infantry barrage ability by making paks better against vehicles. This could be only in the presence of an artillery officer ect
• Let soviet soldiers ride on the back of their tanks, to enable them to make lighting attacks at the risk of taking heavy casualties if caught out of position.
• Make kv8 do as much damage as htd and no more, also make it slower or reduce it health as its outrageous for the cost.
• Give panther longer range to make it a unit with a purpose on the battlefield. Why use it at all if it has hardly any advantage over the p4 and basically cannot kill infantry. This would also play the role of tank hunter much better. If the range is reduced then nerf its ability to kill inf even more, and make the mg only do anti air duties. This would mean panther would be great at flanking armour at distance but then would need support as it would be vulnerable to infantry or at guns due to its poor anti inf capability.
• Reduce the cost of brummbar or bring it down a tier, it’s amazing at cutting down soviet inf but at the price and in t4 has no purpose in a 1v1 basically.
• Give all stationary arty ( not 205mm) the ability to either do the prolonged area denial barrages that it does currently does or the option to fire a smaller volley, in quicker succession in a much smaller area ( like vcoh style) to give a player the ability to do concentrated well aimed damage on the enemy ( maybe at vet1?). To counter act this give this ability a longer cool down ( 90 seconds like vcoh) this would mean arty would be much more flexible and give the soviets a real artillery presence like in ww2.
• Bring back suppression to the game from explosions, multiple automatic guns fire, arty strikes ect this ads another layer of depth to the tactics.
• Perhaps let ost get 5 man grenadier squads via fuel and mp upgrade in t4? This would enable them to still be useful when big boy tanks like isu and is2 come out, or add another layer of depth to the inf heavy commanders like jaeger inf late game. This would also let ost steal enemy weapons such as at guns. The extra man could be a offier – not as much damage as kar98 to make sure they are not OP.
• Give penals a late game purpose either via vet or upgrade to make them useful all game.
• Enable FHQ for both factions, defensive styles of play should be available to both factions, as both were excellent in using defensive tactics.
• Introduce some city based 1v1 maps .. Stalingrad anyone?
• Give vehicles a road bonus to enable different attacks using roads and then leaving tanks vulnerable to mines.
• Due to the lack of durability of pgrens they should get a “ambush” ability at vet 1 ( forget the med pack), this would render them immobile but cause more damage on any troops surprised, the ambush ability could also be used with shreks making them deadly to any tanks which were unsupported and drove past, but leaving them vulnerable to infantry if caught out. They would then use truesight to hide around corners ect and wait in ambush for an enemy squad. If they were seen then units such as the mortar could be used to wipe them out.
The mother of all Coh2 ideas thread
4 Nov 2013, 12:49 PM
#1
Posts: 331
4 Nov 2013, 13:45 PM
#2
Posts: 155
Didnt read but disagree
4 Nov 2013, 13:47 PM
#3
Posts: 331
4 Nov 2013, 13:50 PM
#4
Posts: 9 | Subs: 1
• At guns need a moderate chance to damage engine when they reduce a vehicles health below 50%, shots need to hit 90-95% of the time, this will help killing units such as the t70 or ostwind. This will also off set the chance that faust and at nade reduced ability to do engine damage.
Agree with the increase in hit rate, disagree with the possibility of engine damage. Mines, ram, PFausts, ATnades all provide sources of engine disable.
• Massed inf should be able to quickly kill outnumbers squads – it seems that soviet inf can just walk right into a a large group of ost inf, and button/nade and take very little casualties. This just makes for boring games where no tactical considerations need to be made. I don’t mention ost here as the small squad size makes and expensive reinforce ( as well as lack of abilities like molatov, button ect) make this sort of approach much less common and much more harshly punished.
This already seems to be the case. Ostheer players love to charge in with PGrens and AssGrens. If Guards are buttoning a vehicle, pop smoke or throw a bundle grenade.
• At nades / faust need to do higher damage with smaller chance to crit engine ( perhaps starting from 50% health and having more chance the less healt the vehicle has). Having soviets with at nades is like getting rifles with stickes by default. This sort of things enables there to be 0 drawback from doing a 5-6 conscript start, in vcoh this sort of play could be heavily punished with pumas, stuh, or mgs and mortars ect. But on coh with the at nade meaning light vehicles have smaller impact, and nerfed mgs means they are useless, making it it’s a solid strat. This would mean that cons would not be the chouice for soviet infantry 100% of the time, giving penals and other troop types a chance t shine.
Conscripts don't start with AT nades, so I'm not sure what 'by default' means. 5-6 Conscript start means 2 PGrens are going to have a field day, or just build 5-6 Grens. People do the 4 conscript start because it's a reliable and proven way to gain early map control, and because Penals are too expensive for cost.
• Stop 1 shot ATgun kill for armoured car.. that’s just unnecessary, should do 85% damage with chance to damage engine or something.
Working as intended, you need to micro those suckers for them to be effective.
• Make mortars more predictable with where they are going to hit, not some random bs that requires absolutely no strategy.. the barrage ability should be the one which is most used – being able to judge where the enemy is going to be should be rewarded, while the passive shots should be slower firing to encourage to use the active ability. Having units just sit there and shoot passively for maximum damage is just poor design. This should also take distance from target into effect, meaning the further the bigger the spread ( which would be offset by vet)
Agreed. Barrage seems to have rounds fired quicker than autofire anyway.
• Mgs need to suppress squads within the field of fire, and do so quickly, the tactic of the front rush to the mg should stop any squad/s dead in its tracks, but in turn mgs should be much more vulnerable to flanks meaning that anyone who pulls of a good one will be rewarded with a instant retreat or a decrew.
Agreed. MGs should be glass cannons.
• Make mgs set up in houses faster, but let them lock onto units automatically, so you can draw fire with another squad and run with with a nade.
Takes away control from the player; bad idea.
• Houses need to be fixed, let them collapse only with 25% health or less, also units in houses need to take more damage as currently it favours molatov equipped troops and stalls the game.
Return building mechanics to how they were in CoH1
• Change the mechanic for rifle nades and Molotov’s, make the rife nade harder to aim ( create a small cone shaped reticle which does some point damage upon impact but shoots shrapnel in a cone like manner ( similar to canister round from the Stuart tank) this would mean that it’s easier to dodge as it’s a narrow damage area but units caught in it would take heavy casualties to reward good use. Molatovs should do no upfront damage, this would mean they would be more suitable for getting units out of cover, bunkers and buildings and not spammed openly all game long. These sort of abilities become the standard attack and its just not good play. Units that are undergoing the animation of molatov/rifle nade/ at nade/faust should be able to be sniped cancelling the ability and not refunding the muni cost to reward good sniper micro.
People build German snipers a lot, and currently Soviets rely on the molotov to win Con/Gren engagements before LMG42s pop up. Currently if the model performing the animation dies, the animation must restart before the ability has been utilised (PFaust fires etc). Losing munitions, which is a vital supply of molotovs and mines for effective Soviet early game is not a good idea.
• Rework the vet system – that is make it harder to get vet 2-3, and only give 10% to damage taken ( a unit should not be heavily rewarded for being used as target practice) and, it should get 30% of the damage caused to experience vet but 100% of experience for kills. This means that units that kill units get full reward and those that only deal damage vet up but in a fashion that is only at 1/3 of the speed delaying vet for ineffective squads. I don’t like seeing a fully vetted army about 20 mins into the game.. it reduces the reward for being a great player.
Just tone down German Vet2, change up Blitzkrieg a little bit, you're golden.
• Give tanks side armour, and rear armour stats to reward flanking or getting off good shots. Tanks shouldn’t struggle to penetrate the rear armour of the su85 for instance. Give tanks the ability to crit engines after 50% of the enemies vehicle life is gone, this would reduce the ability of tanks taking lots of damage then using magic smoke and getting out of danger, or units like the su 85 just reversing as they get shot only to miraculously escape with 10% and getting vet 2 in the process. If you mess up your play you should be taking a huge risk right now risk is mitigated.
Pretty sure this has already been implemented, at least rear armour has been. Complaining about the SU-85 reversing to fight another day when we have Blitzkrieg and panzer tactician is a little silly. I don't think Pz 4s struggle to penetrate the rear armour of an SU-85.
• Fix up grenades of all types.. its so RNG related that there is no skill in using and certainly no reference point. Use nades in vcoh as reference point. Something like the bundle nade should be able to absolutely wipe squads- to make this fair it should have a longer set up time, meaning it could be dodged if the player is alert. This would mean there is finally a way to decrew soviet 6 man teams. It would also not allow the pgren to run up into fire, and bundle nade as by then they would be taking serious casualties. Shock troops should no get the standard nade ability but get a grenade that does more stun and less damage, so they could surprise weapon crews, stun them and then clear them out. Currently they are so powerful. They can run through a whole army, kill along the way and throw their nades before retreating and taking very little damage.
Bundle nades have a tendency to wipe squads that are at full members but low health, just like they should be. If you want to decrew a soviet weapon team; fire a rifle grenade and literally walk your dudes over to it. If this fails, flank with a PGren and repeat, only with a bundle and an almost guaranteed squad kill. Shock troops are countered by FHT, drained by snipers and have no AV ability. They're not a problem right now.
• The button ability is active the squad should not be able to use their at rifles to encource the use of the ability to ensnare a vehicle to be despatched by other troops.
You want to nerf the already shitty Soviet Infantry AV? Ok, but give us a Penal Batallion call in from CP 0 that costs 120 manpower and spawns with six PIATs.
• 2 or more pak guns should be able to trigger the pakturm ability allowing you to combine fire both guns on 1 vehicles, which is what the Germans use to do to make sure their guns got kills every volley. This would offset the soviets anti infantry barrage ability by making paks better against vehicles. This could be only in the presence of an artillery officer ect
I don't understand, why not just target the same vehicle with both Paks?
• Let soviet soldiers ride on the back of their tanks, to enable them to make lighting attacks at the risk of taking heavy casualties if caught out of position.
Too much work to implement.
• Make kv8 do as much damage as htd and no more, also make it slower or reduce it health as its outrageous for the cost.
Reduce KV-8 damage, I agree. That's all.
• Give panther longer range to make it a unit with a purpose on the battlefield. Why use it at all if it has hardly any advantage over the p4 and basically cannot kill infantry. This would also play the role of tank hunter much better. If the range is reduced then nerf its ability to kill inf even more, and make the mg only do anti air duties. This would mean panther would be great at flanking armour at distance but then would need support as it would be vulnerable to infantry or at guns due to its poor anti inf capability.
Panther wrecks every Soviet T3 vehicle, and with Blitzkrieg or Hull Down turns into Satan's personal chariot/bunker. Panthers already wreck vehicles and are much harder to kill than Pz 4s. If you want a 'better' Pz 4, call in a Tiger.
• Reduce the cost of brummbar or bring it down a tier, it’s amazing at cutting down soviet inf but at the price and in t4 has no purpose in a 1v1 basically.
No real purpose to a T3 Brummbar for AI, as Ostwind already fulfils that role. I have no idea how to re-do the Brummbar, maybe reduce cost and increase fire rate but lower damage to vehicles?
• Give all stationary arty ( not 205mm) the ability to either do the prolonged area denial barrages that it does currently does or the option to fire a smaller volley, in quicker succession in a much smaller area ( like vcoh style) to give a player the ability to do concentrated well aimed damage on the enemy ( maybe at vet1?). To counter act this give this ability a longer cool down ( 90 seconds like vcoh) this would mean arty would be much more flexible and give the soviets a real artillery presence like in ww2.
So you want a kinda arty precision strike ability?
• Bring back suppression to the game from explosions, multiple automatic guns fire, arty strikes ect this ads another layer of depth to the tactics.
Surprised this got removed. I would probably uninstall the game if LMG42s were suppressing units as well, though.
• Perhaps let ost get 5 man grenadier squads via fuel and mp upgrade in t4? This would enable them to still be useful when big boy tanks like isu and is2 come out, or add another layer of depth to the inf heavy commanders like jaeger inf late game. This would also let ost steal enemy weapons such as at guns. The extra man could be a offier – not as much damage as kar98 to make sure they are not OP.
No thanks, I don't want even tougher late game Ostheer infantry to kill. If you add this, make all conscript squads 9 men or something with free reinforce.
• Give penals a late game purpose either via vet or upgrade to make them useful all game.
Vet 3 Penals are scary.
• Enable FHQ for both factions, defensive styles of play should be available to both factions, as both were excellent in using defensive tactics.
We already have a FHQ ability in the game that is silly in the fact that it is immensely powerful but the building can be destroyed via a quick offering to the RNG god and a mortar team.
• Introduce some city based 1v1 maps .. Stalingrad anyone?
Semoisky is bad enough with buildings in their current state.
• Give vehicles a road bonus to enable different attacks using roads and then leaving tanks vulnerable to mines.
I believe vehicles travel faster on roads and prioritise them when moving about the map. I may be wrong about this, however.
• Due to the lack of durability of pgrens they should get a “ambush” ability at vet 1 ( forget the med pack), this would render them immobile but cause more damage on any troops surprised, the ambush ability could also be used with shreks making them deadly to any tanks which were unsupported and drove past, but leaving them vulnerable to infantry if caught out. They would then use truesight to hide around corners ect and wait in ambush for an enemy squad. If they were seen then units such as the mortar could be used to wipe them out.
This exists, it's called Ambush Camouflage.
4 Nov 2013, 13:54 PM
#5
2 
Posts: 2181
These huge suggestion lists never work. Some of it is already suggested and discussed as well
4 Nov 2013, 13:59 PM
#6
Posts: 331
These huge suggestion lists never work. Some of it is already suggested and discussed as well
yeh well gotta put stuff out there.
4 Nov 2013, 14:00 PM
#7
Posts: 331
I appreciate you reply bro, thanks for the feedback. I personally think that you miss some of my points but I understand there are more than one way to see things so Im glad you took the time for each point
4 Nov 2013, 14:12 PM
#8
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Don't agree with most things. Seems horribly biased towards nerfing soviets even though the current balance favors germans.
Things in particular I disagree with:
Soviet infantry is already worse for cost, they're definitely not waltzing into any sort of ostheer army right now.
I see you have no problem in having Grenadiers have faust and grenades at the same time for completely free while conscripts get overall worse versions of these abilities (though molotov atleast has good sides to it) only if the player pays for them. Soviets are currently punished for doing anything except conscript spamming, because most of T1 and T2 as well as shocks are hard countered by german T2, and grenadiers are definitely the better scaling unit except with 3 specific soviet commanders and even ppsh is at best equal to the lmg, in many situations worse.
While I might agree with a shock nade change for the sake of variety, your logic for it is ridiculous. Shock nades already are the WORST grenade in the game, it's a miracle when they kill anything. The guard nade/bundle (effectively same grenade with the guard nade throwing faster) is hugely better.
Button is already made worthless by panzer tactician (15 munitions compared to 60 flat+40 per use for button, and available on just as many commanders as guards) and in general is very hard to use against anyone who isn't rushing their vehicles in like a complete idiot. And you think it needs to be worse than it is now?
PaK ALREADY ARE BETTER THAN ZIS AS AT, it has a much better firing rate, comes from a better building and has a much better special ability. For the love of god I'd love to see them just get rid of the 60 munition, most inaccurate artillery barrage ever on the ZiS just so people would stop justifying anything based on it.
Soldiers riding tanks very much a gimmick, we already have oorah anyway for fast travel (even if nobody will use it for that because it costs too much to spam). Also M5 halftracks which are also not used.
I'll assume you meant FHT instead of HTD, because otherwise that made no sense. The flameht is one of the top german units in need of a huge nerf really, atleast to the time it comes out if nothing else. It's a unit that can be on the field at 6 minutes easily while the KV8 is a late-game doctrine specific unit only available in two kinda suboptimal commanders. Both units should still be looked at balance wise but the FHT is by far the more problematic of the two right now.
Panther already has 50 range like the StuG, 10 more than the PIV. Price change to Panther and Brumm was stupid though, the manpower investment requirement for them is ridiculous. Should be reverted to the previous 440MP/whatever fuel cost it was.
5-men Grenadiers? You want grenadiers to outclass conscripts even worse? Jesus.
PGrens are fine.
Things in particular I disagree with:
Soviet infantry is already worse for cost, they're definitely not waltzing into any sort of ostheer army right now.
I see you have no problem in having Grenadiers have faust and grenades at the same time for completely free while conscripts get overall worse versions of these abilities (though molotov atleast has good sides to it) only if the player pays for them. Soviets are currently punished for doing anything except conscript spamming, because most of T1 and T2 as well as shocks are hard countered by german T2, and grenadiers are definitely the better scaling unit except with 3 specific soviet commanders and even ppsh is at best equal to the lmg, in many situations worse.
While I might agree with a shock nade change for the sake of variety, your logic for it is ridiculous. Shock nades already are the WORST grenade in the game, it's a miracle when they kill anything. The guard nade/bundle (effectively same grenade with the guard nade throwing faster) is hugely better.
Button is already made worthless by panzer tactician (15 munitions compared to 60 flat+40 per use for button, and available on just as many commanders as guards) and in general is very hard to use against anyone who isn't rushing their vehicles in like a complete idiot. And you think it needs to be worse than it is now?
PaK ALREADY ARE BETTER THAN ZIS AS AT, it has a much better firing rate, comes from a better building and has a much better special ability. For the love of god I'd love to see them just get rid of the 60 munition, most inaccurate artillery barrage ever on the ZiS just so people would stop justifying anything based on it.
Soldiers riding tanks very much a gimmick, we already have oorah anyway for fast travel (even if nobody will use it for that because it costs too much to spam). Also M5 halftracks which are also not used.
I'll assume you meant FHT instead of HTD, because otherwise that made no sense. The flameht is one of the top german units in need of a huge nerf really, atleast to the time it comes out if nothing else. It's a unit that can be on the field at 6 minutes easily while the KV8 is a late-game doctrine specific unit only available in two kinda suboptimal commanders. Both units should still be looked at balance wise but the FHT is by far the more problematic of the two right now.
Panther already has 50 range like the StuG, 10 more than the PIV. Price change to Panther and Brumm was stupid though, the manpower investment requirement for them is ridiculous. Should be reverted to the previous 440MP/whatever fuel cost it was.
5-men Grenadiers? You want grenadiers to outclass conscripts even worse? Jesus.
PGrens are fine.
4 Nov 2013, 14:25 PM
#9
Posts: 249
4 Nov 2013, 14:40 PM
#10
Posts: 331
Don't agree with most things. Seems horribly biased towards nerfing soviets even though the current balance favors germans.
Things in particular I disagree with:
Soviet infantry is already worse for cost, they're definitely not waltzing into any sort of ostheer army right now.
I see you have no problem in having Grenadiers have faust and grenades at the same time for completely free while conscripts get overall worse versions of these abilities (though molotov atleast has good sides to it) only if the player pays for them. Soviets are currently punished for doing anything except conscript spamming, because most of T1 and T2 as well as shocks are hard countered by german T2, and grenadiers are definitely the better scaling unit except with 3 specific soviet commanders and even ppsh is at best equal to the lmg, in many situations worse.
While I might agree with a shock nade change for the sake of variety, your logic for it is ridiculous. Shock nades already are the WORST grenade in the game, it's a miracle when they kill anything. The guard nade/bundle (effectively same grenade with the guard nade throwing faster) is hugely better.
Button is already made worthless by panzer tactician (15 munitions compared to 60 flat+40 per use for button, and available on just as many commanders as guards) and in general is very hard to use against anyone who isn't rushing their vehicles in like a complete idiot. And you think it needs to be worse than it is now?
PaK ALREADY ARE BETTER THAN ZIS AS AT, it has a much better firing rate, comes from a better building and has a much better special ability. For the love of god I'd love to see them just get rid of the 60 munition, most inaccurate artillery barrage ever on the ZiS just so people would stop justifying anything based on it.
Soldiers riding tanks very much a gimmick, we already have oorah anyway for fast travel (even if nobody will use it for that because it costs too much to spam). Also M5 halftracks which are also not used.
I'll assume you meant FHT instead of HTD, because otherwise that made no sense. The flameht is one of the top german units in need of a huge nerf really, atleast to the time it comes out if nothing else. It's a unit that can be on the field at 6 minutes easily while the KV8 is a late-game doctrine specific unit only available in two kinda suboptimal commanders. Both units should still be looked at balance wise but the FHT is by far the more problematic of the two right now.
Panther already has 50 range like the StuG, 10 more than the PIV. Price change to Panther and Brumm was stupid though, the manpower investment requirement for them is ridiculous. Should be reverted to the previous 440MP/whatever fuel cost it was.
5-men Grenadiers? You want grenadiers to outclass conscripts even worse? Jesus.
PGrens are fine.
Well with the other changes in place soviet infantry would be great, they have more and its cheaper to reinforce. I think having cons and the backbone of the soviet inf is stupid.. it should be the base of the inf force but needs to be augemented with other inf units in mid and late game.
THe idea that a bunch of farmers is fighting the whermacht via molatov cocktails all game seems ludicrous to me.. so no its not the answer, it makes no sense and it not fun or tactically sound.
P grens cost 45 munitions and die as fast as a engineer squad.. ok they do great damage, but shocks do more and they are basically uncounterble via ost infantry. Ok flame ht can kill them and so can ostwind but all u need is a su85 from half the map away and thats that. Do you know what can kill p grens? Ill start a list for you, m3 ht,shocks, t70, t34, su 85, zis gun, maxim, 120mm mortar, su 76, is2, isu152 and it goes on an on they die to just about everything and usualy lose 2 modes very quickly thats 90 mp right there. So no I dont agree shocks are fine, with the hard nade they are too powerful and it would be good for a change.
The idea behind grens is that they do outclass conscripts. ost has 2 inf units grens and p grens thats it, and if cons can take on both types ( via different load outs) but then even tougher inf comes out in form of shocks, and the at guys as well as penals and engineer with flame you have to start to think that perhaps soviet is getting the bettter deal with the inf. and to boot its all cheaper then the ost version, is about 5 times harder to wipe out and there is moer varied units on the field and they can steal weapons while ost basically cant.
Now combine that with weapon crews that fight for themselves and op units like kv8 and lets see just how strong the gren squad is.
You say the soviet inf is not waltzing into ost fire but im watching current replays of exactly that, soviets walking infront of mg42s, and throwing molatov, and and guards walking in and even though its a at unit, its got mgs which give them great ai ability. Watch a guard vs gren fight, guards usualy win, and if things go bad they throw a nade and its over.
I see no problem with faust and at nade if they primarily did damage adn engine crit after 50% health like in vcoh, they way both work right now is a joke. I cant stand the sort of gameplay where a = b, at nade and faust is just the engine damage button its a joke.
And these are out of the first units you build in the game, leaving vehicles always exposed to engine damage, all game long.
Pak may be better than zis, except that its not. Soviet tanks like t70 are fast and rape at guns, kv 8 makes a joke of at guns, su 85 out ranges at guns and is2 and isu basically one shot at guns.. so in a way the pak is completely usless, especially since they do no engine damage so t70 might take one shot and basically always escapes. The barage ability of zis basiaclly means any time a inf squad is in fro\nt of the siz and it attacks its in danger of being wiped out. The reaction is so slow and the units move so badly that nearly always gets clipped by a shot and loses at least 50% of the squad.. this is meant to be a unit that is vulnerable to infantry....
4 Nov 2013, 14:48 PM
#11
15 
Posts: 786
No doubt you have the best intention but you have a biased view that probably derives from not playing enough with soviets, since you come up with all the worst case scenarios for the Ost and ignore all the rest (which is typical when you play only one faction).
Cruzz's post reflects more the view of an experienced player that knows the current meta
Cruzz's post reflects more the view of an experienced player that knows the current meta
4 Nov 2013, 14:58 PM
#12
Posts: 331
you probably have the best intention but you have a biased view that probably derives from not playing enough with soviets, since you come up with all the worse case scenarios for the Ost and ignoring all the rest (which is typical when you play only one faction)
Well I agree I play ost a hell of a lot more and when I play soviet I usually lose but still its about game mechanics not about balance. Balance can be addressed, but mechanics need to be identified and then deliberately changed.
Its not really worst case scenario its more like sure a lot of the issues can be mitigated with specific play ect but thats not the problem the problem is it should never be like that in the first place.
Honestly who thought the idea that the molatov cocktail will be soviet unions most powerful weapon closely followed by a unit that is worse than the stug.. its just plain stupidity and they way these units work in game is everything but clever, strategic or even fun.
I get it its a game its not about realism but thats what made coh so good it was a game but it was based off real life principles to an extent. For instance the us armour general was like the us war machine, inexhaustable with tanks that could stand up to german ones later on in the war. Buying vet was like German armies coming back from the east hardened by years of war comapred to the green us units. But if the us soldiers lived long enough they become hard as nails and a match for the wher.
Where is any of this in coh 2? The campaign was a massive joke, its like they watched some enemy at the gates while drunk and came up with some bullshit and this rubs off into the multi player, having cons that can literally do every single role, having units that seem to be from the beta version of the game like kv8, can it be killed? Sure but why make it like that in the first place, why remove the best things out of the original game and turn it into a secondary fire spamfest
So no I dont want to neft soviet army, I want it to be better, I want the game to be better and to do that it has to change.
4 Nov 2013, 15:06 PM
#13
15 Posts: 786
personally I couldn't care less about historical accuracy, I understand some people do but a rework in that sense would mean changing too much of the game, so I don't really think it's feasible even if it brings balance (to the Force?!).
the game is in a pretty good shape imho, it only needs some adjusting so that the early grenspam doesn't pay off as mush as it does now (and therefore sovs don't need the cons spam), once that's adressed and we see stuff like M3 back into the meta it'll be happy days
the game is in a pretty good shape imho, it only needs some adjusting so that the early grenspam doesn't pay off as mush as it does now (and therefore sovs don't need the cons spam), once that's adressed and we see stuff like M3 back into the meta it'll be happy days
4 Nov 2013, 15:13 PM
#14
Posts: 331
personally I couldn't care less about historical accuracy, I understand some people do but a rework in that sense would mean changing too much of the game, so I don't really think it's feasible even if it brings balance.
the game is in a pretty good shape imho, it only needs some adjusting so that the early grenspam doesn't pay off as mush as it does now (and therefore sovs don't need the cons spam), once that's adressed and we see stuff like M3 back into the meta it'll be happy days
Well I have outlined the changes and they are all pretty subtle and would make the game much more vcoh style compare to what it is now and that could only be a great thing. Historical or not the current game does not make any sense what so ever, with the soviets having 5 viable infantry squads to the ost 2 ( not counting ass grens) then its obvious that grens will have to be better than cons end of story.
Logically this is so as grens are the backbone of one of the best armies in history, which brought many defeats to the soviet army which had better equipment and millions more men, meanwhile the conscript is jsut that, a conscript with minimal training.
So would the cons be useful in the tweak of course, but they should not be a equal to the grens for that you have guards or shocks or penals.
THe game is improving but its far from great I would like to see it go from what it is now to what it should be
4 Nov 2013, 15:25 PM
#15
Posts: 480
Do we really need two generalist ideas threads from the same poster in two days? Why not just add it to your other thread? Especially when there is a large amount of overlap...
To cherrypick a few of the obvious ones because it's impossible to coherently answer such a list of suggestions in a way other forumites can actually read it.
You obviously lack experience of the game as Soviets and many of the suggestions here seem to reflect having only played the game from one side and even then you exaggerate a lot of things. You don't appear to be aware that AT nades are a fuel-costing upgrade in the same way as stickies were. I'm pretty sure vehicles do have a road bonus. Shock grenades are actually pretty feeble right now. I'd like them to have a building-clearer grenade personally instead of just a crap multipurpose one.
Panthers are far far better at killing vehicles than P-IVs, they do not have trouble penetrating the rear armour of an SU-85, they are faster than a P-IV, have more health, more range and can penetrate an SU-85 frontally reasonably well. Experienced Ostheer infantry are still very strong late-game...
Putting lower-cost Brummbars in Tier 3 is silly because the overlap with the Ostwind would be huge and then Ostheer T4 would have no AI tank. Brummbars are pretty bad for their cost at the moment, and need a cost reduction and probably a stats buff to the level of a KV-8's armour and health instead of a tier change.
Basically, Cruzz is right, and please don't make two different threads with a lot of shared suggestions based on a very one-sided experience of the game and factual ignorance of the game engine and stats.
To cherrypick a few of the obvious ones because it's impossible to coherently answer such a list of suggestions in a way other forumites can actually read it.
You obviously lack experience of the game as Soviets and many of the suggestions here seem to reflect having only played the game from one side and even then you exaggerate a lot of things. You don't appear to be aware that AT nades are a fuel-costing upgrade in the same way as stickies were. I'm pretty sure vehicles do have a road bonus. Shock grenades are actually pretty feeble right now. I'd like them to have a building-clearer grenade personally instead of just a crap multipurpose one.
Panthers are far far better at killing vehicles than P-IVs, they do not have trouble penetrating the rear armour of an SU-85, they are faster than a P-IV, have more health, more range and can penetrate an SU-85 frontally reasonably well. Experienced Ostheer infantry are still very strong late-game...
Putting lower-cost Brummbars in Tier 3 is silly because the overlap with the Ostwind would be huge and then Ostheer T4 would have no AI tank. Brummbars are pretty bad for their cost at the moment, and need a cost reduction and probably a stats buff to the level of a KV-8's armour and health instead of a tier change.
Basically, Cruzz is right, and please don't make two different threads with a lot of shared suggestions based on a very one-sided experience of the game and factual ignorance of the game engine and stats.
4 Nov 2013, 15:26 PM
#16
3 
Posts: 368
No doubt you have the best intention but you have a biased view that probably derives from not playing enough with soviets, since you come up with all the worst case scenarios for the Ost and ignore all the rest (which is typical when you play only one faction).
Cruzz's post reflects more the view of an experienced player that knows the current meta
+1 (With the exception of his notion of the Shocktrooper grenade).
Do we really need two generalist ideas threads from the same poster in two days? Why not just add it to your other thread? Especially when there is a large amount of overlap...
Another +1.
It is fine to have an opinion, even if it is stark contrast to most. But opinion-spam demands undue discipline from the community as a whole, if you do not want to get flamed or ridiculed.
/Uninstalled
4 Nov 2013, 15:27 PM
#17
Posts: 331
Do we really need two generalist ideas threads from the same poster in two days? Why not just add it to your other thread? Especially when there is a large amount of overlap...
To cherrypick a few of the obvious ones because it's impossible to coherently answer such a list of suggestions in a way other forumites can actually read it.
You obviously lack experience of the game as Soviets and many of the suggestions here seem to reflect having only played the game from one side and even then you exaggerate a lot of things. You don't appear to be aware that AT nades are a fuel-costing upgrade in the same way as stickies were. I'm pretty sure vehicles do have a road bonus. Shock grenades are actually pretty feeble right now. I'd like them to have a building-clearer grenade personally instead of just a crap multipurpose one.
Panthers are far far better at killing vehicles than P-IVs, they do not have trouble penetrating the rear armour of an SU-85, they are faster than a P-IV, have more health, more range and can penetrate an SU-85 frontally reasonably well. Experienced Ostheer infantry are still very strong late-game...
Putting lower-cost Brummbars in Tier 3 is silly because the overlap with the Ostwind would be huge and then Ostheer T4 would have no AI tank. Brummbars are pretty bad for their cost at the moment, and need a cost reduction and probably a stats buff to the level of a KV-8's armour and health instead of a tier change.
Basically, Cruzz is right, and please don't make two different threads with a lot of shared suggestions based on a very one-sided experience of the game and factual ignorance of the game engine and stats.
No offense but I can post as often as I like. You sound to me like someone that has come to coh2 without ever playing coh. See I played coh from the first month that the game came out 8 years ago and I have enough experience in coh2 to know what up.
Ok where to start.. at nades cost fuel.. yep they do but they are a no brainer upgrade that has 0 influence on tech or the soviet choices in general. Its not a option of getting them or mollies or getting them instead of something else, as a soviet player you just get them they might as well be free.
Chek out coh for a road bonus, the vehicles are basically 2 times the speed that they are on the rough ground, this means you can use roads to actually make maneuvers, in coh there's hardly a difference.
Does the panther have more health and damage? Yep but is it substantial in game? health wise sure but damage no. When a unit that is designed to kill tanks, costs 2-3 times more then the su85 actually struggle to kill a su85 while flanking and what I mean by that is it takes more than 3 shots to the rear then you know the game is flawed. Go play coh just for a few matches watch how fast a panther goes down to at guns from the front, or how quick a m10 can mess up a stug from the rear... now go to coh 2 and watch the panther make a meal out of the su85 for like 30 seconds meanwhile it can be shot buy a swarm of at guns or get engine damage from teir 0 troops that cover the map.
4 Nov 2013, 15:30 PM
#18
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Well I have outlined the changes and they are all pretty subtle and would make the game much more vcoh style compare to what it is now and that could only be a great thing. Historical or not the current game does not make any sense what so ever, with the soviets having 5 viable infantry squads to the ost 2 ( not counting ass grens) then its obvious that grens will have to be better than cons end of story.
5? Conscripts, Penals, Shocks, Guards, ?????? (Nevermind you can't even have all 4 at once. Also why don't you count assgrens, it's not like soviets don't have several commanders without shocks or guards. )
You are saying nerfing conscripts would make it more "vcoh" like, but a big problem with the balance right now is that conscripts aren't nearly as strong as riflemen were compared to the Wehrmacht unit selection but are nevertheless forced to perform the exact same role as riflemen had.
Guards, shocks and penals can't fill the role that conscripts have now without a complete redesign of all of them. A redesign which you certainly didn't mention.
4 Nov 2013, 15:38 PM
#19
Posts: 331
5? Conscripts, Penals, Shocks, Guards, ?????? (Nevermind you can't even have all 4 at once. Also why don't you count assgrens, it's not like soviets don't have several commanders without shocks or guards. )
You are saying nerfing conscripts would make it more "vcoh" like, but a big problem with the balance right now is that conscripts aren't nearly as strong as riflemen were compared to the Wehrmacht unit selection but are nevertheless forced to perform the exact same role as riflemen had.
Guards, shocks and penals can't fill the role that conscripts have now without a complete redesign of all of them. A redesign which you certainly didn't mention.
I didnt say to nerf them, infact it says that if there is multiple units shooting one unit the one unit gets raped.. sounds to me like soviets have a advantage right there. Read what i write as a whole package dont cherry pick one idea and blow it out of proportion,
Why would I want one faction of the game to be completely shit while making the other op? I want a great game to rival coh not some joke wih the coh name on it.
For what the cons would lack in a 1 v 1 they would make up for in numbers if used right,
4 Nov 2013, 15:43 PM
#20
15 Posts: 786
I'm sure there will be plenty of mods if you want CoH2 to be vcoh all over again, just wait.
It's pretty clear that the intention was to make a different game and while it still has issues, they have nothing to do with the fact that it's different than vcoh.
It's pretty clear that the intention was to make a different game and while it still has issues, they have nothing to do with the fact that it's different than vcoh.
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