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[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

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16 Dec 2020, 07:11 AM
#481
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

As a general principle, where does the balance team stand on complexity creep?

While I understand the necessity of nuanced changes, when you have several patches stacking new mechanics onto the same unit to buff and nerf them they can end up getting pretty convoluted.

When adjusting units, could it be worth looking at which tweaks from old patches they don't need any more?
16 Dec 2020, 21:43 PM
#482
avatar of Jon2020

Posts: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2020, 20:34 PMKatitof
Probably, but "vipper doesn't like how it is now" isn't exactly a valid reason to even start considering the option and literally no one ever complained about their default weapons being too strong or weak.


I'm new to these forums, and admittedly don't have a ton of time to read every single post, but I have already seen the way that conversations are routinely driven by fanboys opposing any positive changes that could help improve their least favorite faction's competitiveness in team games. Can't we do better than this as a community, for the sake of more-interesting gameplay?

The fact that we have certain factions, commanders, and units getting virtually no use in competitive matches is driving people to play with the same of the aforementioned again and again. Good players won't deviate far from them if they have any real desire to win matches. Frankly, it makes the game boring and less enjoyable to play. Can we do a statistical analysis of the commanders, abilities, units, etc. which are used least often, and propose some changes to them to bring them into relevancy? I'm proposing this for *all* factions, not just those factions I play (or like) the most. Or is this underway already?
16 Dec 2020, 22:18 PM
#483
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2020, 21:43 PMJon2020


I'm new to these forums, and admittedly don't have a ton of time to read every single post, but I have already seen the way that conversations are routinely driven by fanboys opposing any positive changes that could help improve their least favorite faction's competitiveness in team games. Can't we do better than this as a community, for the sake of more-interesting gameplay?

The fact that we have certain factions, commanders, and units getting virtually no use in competitive matches is driving people to play with the same of the aforementioned again and again. Good players won't deviate far from them if they have any real desire to win matches. Frankly, it makes the game boring and less enjoyable to play. Can we do a statistical analysis of the commanders, abilities, units, etc. which are used least often, and propose some changes to them to bring them into relevancy? I'm proposing this for *all* factions, not just those factions I play (or like) the most. Or is this underway already?

Why are you quoting me?
I'm not the one who wants to nerf a squad that is non existent in games above 4 digit ranks.
16 Dec 2020, 22:38 PM
#484
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

So..another patch where every change is an axis buff.

Cool.
17 Dec 2020, 01:32 AM
#485
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 306

woa, patch 1.3 openning with BIG Con nerf
wellplayed.
Buff Kubel for Chasing sniper ???. How about they charging retreat squad or pushing inf out of cover ??
Exchange smoke to hunt ability is bad move.
17 Dec 2020, 07:17 AM
#486
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

V3 General Changes

Main Gun Criticals
While main gun criticals are an issue in competitive play, we do not want to remove this feature entirely from Company of Heroes as these moments can make for intense moments for the non-competitive side of play. Instead, we are reducing the chance for the Main Gun critical to happen primarily during medium tank engagements when under attack from sources that deal 160 damage.
- Main Gun Critical now has a chance to trigger at 20% rather than 25%

Panzerfausts
To avoid accidental mis-clicks on ambient structures which the Panzerfaust does barely any damage against, panzerfausts will no longer be able to target them.
- Panzerfausts can no longer target ambient structures

Puma and Sniper Critical/Aimed Shot
- Critical against Assault guns now inflicts a -75% speed and rotation debuff for 5 seconds and disables the weapon rather than slowing the unit to a complete halt and cancelling orders until the debuff wears off.
- SU-76 will no longer receive engine damage from the ability in addition to being stunned.
17 Dec 2020, 07:43 AM
#487
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Main Gun Criticals

Fast firing weapons like AT rifles should have their critical chance toned down or removed.

Panzerfausts

A good change

Puma and Sniper Critical/Aimed Shot

A good change but sniper shot should not snare light vehicles since they should act a counter to sniper.
17 Dec 2020, 10:10 AM
#488
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Dec 2020, 07:43 AMVipper

A good change but sniper shot should not snare light vehicles since they should act a counter to sniper.


It is time to give the british sniper a nomal, No.4 (T) scoper rifle and be done with the bullshit sniper AT rifle. Watch forgotten weapon, balance team? a Boy AT rifle is not a sniper rifle.
Pip
17 Dec 2020, 14:50 PM
#489
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

V3 General Changes



I'd still have preferred MGC to have been removed entirely, but reducing the chance is... a step in the right direction.
17 Dec 2020, 15:13 PM
#490
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Dec 2020, 14:50 PMPip


I'd still have preferred MGC to have been removed entirely, but reducing the chance is... a step in the right direction.


I think so too.
The planned implementation reduces the frequency quite heavily and gives a bit more control over it happening. I am quite happy that this is nothing that players need to worry about in almost every single vehicle engagement anymore.

Also it slightly increases the apparent value of snares and mines since they allow damage below 20%. Maybe not perfect but I can understand and agree with the logic behind the decision.
17 Dec 2020, 15:31 PM
#491
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 940

Puma AS change was prob overdue, esp if we see more SU-76s. Live is very close to a hard counter to the vehicle. New special effect is prob the equivalent of .50 cal Sniper's critical shot doing a turret lock on JP4 I suppose.
17 Dec 2020, 19:09 PM
#492
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Like the general changes
18 Dec 2020, 11:16 AM
#493
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

Can we fix decap point ability of Stuka Dive bomber and uncounterable sight tool of OKW artillery flares at this patch please?

Stuka dive bomber - decap point: Because of this ability there is no way for an allied 4vs4 team to stop Close the Pocket on poorly desigend maps like Redball/Whiteball even if they know the axis team can pull it off. On axis side you have commander abilities for uncounterable sight, for destruction of caches and for instant decapping of points. We tried it ourselves as an axis team multiple times, it costs a lot of ammunition, but it is always a cheesy game changer that will win the game.

Artillery Flares: Can be used with the tactic above. It is the only uncounterable ability in the game that gives constant sight at any given point of the map. Especially since a lot of attack planes and offmap artillery abilities need sight to be efficient it is the perfect addition in a multiplayer game. Recon should be always counterable. Exchange this ability with recon plane please (you should rework artillery flares at UKF Royal Artillery Regiment at some point too, sending planes instead of flares, but the ability is less of a problem).
18 Dec 2020, 16:35 PM
#494
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Can we fix decap point ability of Stuka Dive bomber and uncounterable sight tool of OKW artillery flares at this patch please?

Stuka dive bomber - decap point: Because of this ability there is no way for an allied 4vs4 team to stop Close the Pocket on poorly desigend maps like Redball/Whiteball even if they know the axis team can pull it off. On axis side you have commander abilities for uncounterable sight, for destruction of caches and for instant decapping of points. We tried it ourselves as an axis team multiple times, it costs a lot of ammunition, but it is always a cheesy game changer that will win the game.

caches are they key here. ive had the pocket closed in 4s. it hurts like hell but it is preventable. dont leave your cut off free to take and itll be fine. that said, delaying the rain of death a bit so the player has time to recap a bit before everything is deletd might be nice. have the ability ramp up a bit more

Artillery Flares: Can be used with the tactic above. It is the only uncounterable ability in the game that gives constant sight at any given point of the map. Especially since a lot of attack planes and offmap artillery abilities need sight to be efficient it is the perfect addition in a multiplayer game. Recon should be always counterable. Exchange this ability with recon plane please (you should rework artillery flares at UKF Royal Artillery Regiment at some point too, sending planes instead of flares, but the ability is less of a problem).

iirc its being looked at
18 Dec 2020, 19:45 PM
#495
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

caches are they key here. ive had the pocket closed in 4s. it hurts like hell but it is preventable. dont leave your cut off free to take and itll be fine. that said, delaying the rain of death a bit so the player has time to recap a bit before everything is deletd might be nice. have the ability ramp up a bit more


I saw it happen. And yeah we tried this too already: You can destroy the cache with an offmap and just follow up the Stuka bomb. All theses are offmap abilities that can't be countered. Yeah it needs ammunition and a litte bit of timing but it pays off. I don't know how to prevent this.
19 Dec 2020, 01:46 AM
#496
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930



thats very much the role of pathfinders though.... its a huge bonus and it shouldn't be available on 4 units you get for free....

meanwhile bunkers and s-mines and trenches are also huge bonuses that everyone and their mothers get acess into when using fortifications doc...
19 Dec 2020, 01:53 AM
#497
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

puma aimed shot needs to have a visual warning to the enemy, you can never know if the puma is using an ability or just faking it.
19 Dec 2020, 02:19 AM
#498
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2020, 13:54 PMVipper

They simply should not start with Paras Carbines...

maybe springfield rifles, with a dps curve similar to grens K98? I believe the weapon models already exist in the game.

also, I will double down on the beacon availability again, being only on the pathfinder is stupid since it's a fairly pricy unit and trying to drop anything on the field without a beacon is borderline suicide.
19 Dec 2020, 03:33 AM
#499
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 02:19 AMzerocoh

maybe springfield rifles, with a dps curve similar to grens K98? I believe the weapon models already exist in the game.

also, I will double down on the beacon availability again, being only on the pathfinder is stupid since it's a fairly pricy unit and trying to drop anything on the field without a beacon is borderline suicide.


the models doesnt exit, as far as i know.
19 Dec 2020, 06:21 AM
#500
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2020, 20:30 PMVipper
I am pretty sure that is not a good idea, I am also pretty sure that one can create a "new" weapon profile the fits the needs of Pathfinder better.

Or one can give them a garrand and make them cheaper.

The Paratrooper M1 Carbine is superior to the Rifleman M1 Garand at range, so giving them Garands doesn't serve your purpose of making them better at long range. The only thing you could do is give them an M1919 or create another M1 Garand that is better at long range. Perhaps an M1 Garand with the close range DPS of a Vet 3 Garand (which itself closely mirror's the Panzerfusilier G43) with the long range DPS of the Panzergrenadier G43.


jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 02:19 AMzerocoh
maybe springfield rifles, with a dps curve similar to grens K98? I believe the weapon models already exist in the game.

I've never heard of any Springfield rifle models. Even the DMR is an M1 Garand, and those were exceptionally rare.
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