Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only difference between them a marginally better reload speed of KV-1?
Yes, that's at least a 10% buff to the gun.
My point is more that it is quite embarrassing to mock lack of stat knowledge to rip on people and then not even being correct in it yourself.
What do u mean by distribution curve? Since we have the probability of pene already in already in pene/armor.
Every shot is a coin toss. The real hit chance is impossible to calculate due to the lack of knowledge about in game hit boxes, but the penetration chance is easy. Both follow Bernoulli distributions though.
To make it short: although the expectancy values like in your formula are good indicators, they don't give the full picture. A glass cannon tank with 100% pen chance that can only take one hit dueling a beefy tank with 10% pen chance that can take 10 shots will still lose in >60% of cases, although their expectancy value is exactly the same - 10 shots to kill the enemy
Hey mate I am curious how is the TTK calculated. Is it (hp/shot dmg)*ROF/(pen chance) ?
basically yes, but you have to round up the HP/shot part.
Most representative would be a distribution curve though.
Yes, it will, that goes without a question.
But its firepower is not the reason why.
I find it hilarious you can't see it, so let me draw you a clearer picture:
It got the same firepower as T34/76.
If T34 does not have enough firepower to beat P4, neither does another unit with EXACT SAME GUN, so the reason for different outcome is CLEARLY NOT FIREPOWER, like... there is maybe some difference between KV-1 and 34/76 that is not firepower?
Check your excel sheets, maybe you'll find hints on actual reason why one of these tanks almost always loses and other almost always wins despite having the exact same firepower on both.
I am not sure what you are arguing about. Vipper said it is sufficient to win if the P4 decides to slug it out, there's nothing wrong about it. He did not say it is due to a great gun or whatever, he said it is sufficient to pen the P4 often enough to win the engagement. You're just trying to pick a fight, but this is a quite pointless one.
Also you should check an excel sheet yourself once in a while. You now twice stated (even in capital letters for further mockery) that the KV1 has exactly the same gun as the T34 which is not even correct.
One of the problems with the KV-1 (as many other units) is that it get the complete wrong vet bonuses:
Unlocks the "Hull Down" ability.
+35% weapon rotation speed.
+30% reload speed.
+20% reload speed.
+20% rotation speed.
+20% maximum speed.
It durability should simply be move to its veterancy since vet bonuses should help the unit in its role.
The Vet1 fits pretty perfectly.
Moving it's durability to veterancy would require a complete rework of the unit including pricing. Soviets already have a lot of squishy tanks, adding yet another one that just gets beefier over time does not add too much to the faction. The general design of the KV1 is good, it just needs a couple of adjustments in my opinion. I find it slightly too durable for what you pay for, especially combined with a SU85.
Vet often improves the role or irons out some weaknesses (like StuG side skirts), but in this case I would say the KV1 should not get any beefier or Axis would have real issues for a relatively cheap tank. I think the reload speed veterancy is not that bad and mainly improves the role as infantry support due to the bad penetration.
Yes, maybe there could be a bit better vet, but overall it's not completely wrong.
Kw1 isnt this slow "as fuck".
Target size: 24 Sight: 35 Speed: 5.1 Accel: 1.6 Rotate: 30 Armor: 270/165 Health: 800
it is surprisingly good at mobility.
"Slow as fuck" is a slight hyperbole. I was mostly reffering to the acceleration that ensures you to catch a couple of shots if you picked the wrong engagement. Similar to German heavy tanks (actually it is pretty comparable to the Tiger in terms of mobility). But that's not the focus of the tank anyway, the focus is being tanky.
KW1 is bit of a joke. It should have a lot of HP to fullfill its tanky role, but its armor is way too high. This should be decreased.
You also have to mention its Vet1 ability to dig in, which doesn't even needs any infantry unit to do so (in contrast to OST Hull Down ability).
=> So, lower its armor, increase its HP to 880. Then it can sustain 1 more shot and KW1 should be fine.
I agree that at least the rear and possibly also the frontal armor (or alternatively the rotation speed) should be slightly lowered. Increasing the health as you suggested will do nothing. The KV-1 already gets a damage modifier of 0,8 I believe, so it can take 6 hits plus faust. The additional 80 health would just remove the ability to kill it with a faust.
Another option could be to shift damage modifiers to the veterancy ability. So -10% standard (or maybe -8% so it stays faustable, otherwise it might survive with literally 8 health) and move the rest to the veterancy ability for the total -36% it would get now at vet1 in the hull down.
Broken for me too. Also I am new to this, can this stats depiction be used in actual official automatches? Since it consists of make changes to internal files I believe it incorporates the vet details into the live game.
Yes it can be used without issues.
This "mod" just changes one single file which is the file that contains all text strings in CoH2. It basically just exchanges a couple of those strings, nothing more.
/moved to the gameplay section since as OP states, this is more of a rant than focussed balance discussion atm.
OST has not really a unit to very reliably deal with heavy armor except of course the Elefant. That's why Comets and Churchills are/were super popular as well. KV1 has 270 armor, Panther has 220 far and 240 mid penetration, PaK40 190/200. So Panther is the only unit that can somewhat reliably deal with the KV1's frontal armor, while the PaK is also a good choice because of its range. The KV1 is slow as fuck and you will get a lot of shots off while the KV1 enters and leaves the cone at snail speed. Especially when you can stun him. Another plus for the PaK is the KV1-SU85 combo. While your Panther will get shot and penned by the SU85 when attacking the KV1, the PaK stays basically untouchable.
My favourite though is the OKW P4 vs KV1 matchup. None of these tanks have a real chance to kill each other and the fight goes on forever.
Had you said THAT the following pages of discussion would have been different. It's hard to tell what you mean when you don't say it.
He said that though in literally the first post of his.
And while I think his Kübel point is quite exaggerated, it's not absolutely wrong
Third test was pretty close though, and also in the second they got very decent damage in. Also on your 180° turning test, I think the crew did not get much damage in (only watched it once though).
So I did some testing as well and have to say ullumullu is not entirely wrong. If the Maxim catches a short burst while traversing through the cone and the models manage to hit the rear armor a couple of times, it can get a little dicey for the Kübel. I did 8 tests myself with the Kübel usually catching a small burst of the Maxim, then parking outside the cone at short to mid range and shooting. Kübel lost in one case where I drove past the crew to allow for rear armor hits, in two others he still won despite that but it was close. Also when parked at very short range, it could get a bit tough. When handled somewhat properly however and mostly front armor is shown, Kübel did a decent job. I can't say too much about range dependency, but I think the shorter the range the better for the crew, at least that would also be supported by the DPS calculator site.
In all cases however I'd say it is impossible to lose your Kübel to a Maxim crew since you can always reverse out and even if the crew won they suffered a lot. I agree on the case that Kübel is not a go-to counter for pushing up face to face and expect to win, so if there are very laney sections like Poltawa or Angermünde, Kübel might indeed not fare very well at least in these specific scenario.
But claiming that the Maxim could fend off both a flanking Kübel plus a frontal Volks squad is exaggerated, unless the OKW player is an idiot and charges with the Volks squad until it is suppressed before supporting with the Kübel. This combination will force a retreat unless you REALLY want to gamble with your Maxim.
we both know that the kubel will lose to a mg crew when driving around the mg cone and try to kill the crew...
Don't try to pull me into this.
All weapon crews are shit at fighting by design. If the maxim crew is different, it is an oversight. Not saying it cannot be the case, but since it is mot supposed to be that way and I never experienced a strong maxim crew in game, I asked you for a video or at least some data from tests how many models the Kubel kills before it has to retreat or something
my intention was: OKW lack any good anti MG mechanic for early game. its super easy to push back okw when you play smart with your mgs and see what comes from flanks. okw is in trouble than. that why you have no nice time on lane maps when u have only okw in your team. you have no smoke, no sniper, no mortar, no mg, no carrier, and your kubel is not able to win a fight vs a flanked mg crew
For 3v3 and 4v4 on the narrow maps I could see this, but then if you are not super unlucky you will have team mates to help you out and can always drop your lane to reinforce somewhere else for a double push, which will give you map control somewhere else. Additionally, large modes tend to have less cut offs so even if the OKW lane goes shitty the faction will make it easily to their indirect and flame nades. If you make it past the early game then the Maxim built will become utterly useless.
In 1v1 and all except for maybe 2 maps in 2v2, flanking is always possible.
Also the Maxim suppression is so low that it can't do anything against units in green cover. Once the SOV faction loses a position, it is gone for good since Volks all have sandbags.
did the kubel won? show us a vid/ proof
You can also always upload your video showing that, since you made the initial claim.