Damn, it might be almost as powerful as what axis command units can put out CONSTANTLY for ALL infantry units, sometimes even for allied ones, which somehow you've never mentioned before despite it all being stronger/permanent aura buffs on stronger infantries.
Also how hit the dirt is being mentioned here?
Is it now default vet1 ability?
Wasn't it tied to PPSH upgrade?
Dear Katitof
Once more PLS do not quote me unless what you post is a response to what I have posted. It is misleading since it creates the impression that have made claims that I have not made.
I have not claim that these combos are powerful, I have simply pointed out that they need testing.
Unless you have test them and can share the results PLS do not quote me.
Pls stop trying to pick a fight, I have very little interest.
Bye bye and
Have a nice day.
Also how hit the dirt is being mentioned here?
Is it now default vet1 ability?
Wasn't it tied to PPSH upgrade?
NO that information is simply wrong. Hit the dirt is merge with PPsh upgrade but it is not tied to it.
Hit the dirt is available with or without PPsh. It can be used with 7 entities conscripts. Now instead of forcing me to correct you pls load the game (or even play a game) and check before asking these questions. |
|
-When upgraded with Mobilize Reserves, weapon cooldown and reload on Mosin Nagant rifles is reduced by 50% when in cover.
So now upgrade in cover will be able to get:
0.5 CD +0.5Reload + 1 entity
and another:
Fight to the Death +20% weapon accuracy and 0.5 cooldown
Stand Your Ground -30% received accuracy and -10% received damage
For Mother Russia +50% accuracy
Hit the Dirt -10% received damage, -20% accuracy
Forward HQ Inspiration +0.25 armor, +50% accuracy
Inspire: Infantry cooldowns reduced by 20%
that can be combined in one comamnder
Now unless all these combination are tested thoroughly I would suggest the focus remain on commanders and the changes to conscripts are postpone... |
I'm really confused about the discussion about pickable weapons.
As far as I remember, when relic gave cons glasses to finaly land their shots they also reduced their weapon slots to 1 and added a modifier to make looted weapons less effective
We are talking mostly about weapons that can be "given" like the ones from UKF m5 and new SVTs.
In addition there no modifier to make "looted weapons less effective". There is chaos where, a handful of units pick different version of the weapon and a penalty in ostruppen slot weapon when in cover. |
So what’s better? Balancing that half-truck or holding conscripts hostage over it? If it messes up balancing so much then fix it, don’t base the power level of conscripts around it.
Why are you asking me? I am not the one that suggested that conscripts should have 1 weapon slot.
On the contrary I have posted several times that intentional drop-able weapon should either be removed or unit should pick a version of the weapon according to their power. |
Is there a problem with the way it scans now? Is it too strong? I just never had that impression, so I don't understand why it has to work this way.
I thought that it revealing targets and making them more vulnerable to units equipped with IR scopes is a more interesting way to change it, and then you could put it into spec ops and finally do something about the command panther and make this commander revolved around IR.
Of course, I'm not really hoping for a spec ops rework, but if the Owl has to be changed, I don't see why it should only reveal on the minimap.
its bugged and under the right conditions the scan remain even when not in arc. |
7 men with a single vickers or single piat wouldn't be that spooky seeing as their stats were balanced around being able to get 2. Additionally I would have it locked behind a sidegrade so the ability to do so would require a fuel and manpower investment. Furthermore it still costs 50mu for the 7th man. So 85mu for a single vickers on a durable squad across 2 players seems ineffecient...
Not really.
The reason why their weapon slot was reduced to 1 is because they where OP when they had 2 Vickes or Piats. |
I don't disagree. I've been bitching about the silly upgrade costs on cons for ages especially since they cost the same as grens and ever so slightly less than volks but never actually shine. But they are SUPPOSED to be about manpower effeciency. The 7th man and the changes therein help make merge more attractive, but a single svt does nothing for them at all early mid or late game.
I think the 7th man should be moved to 2 buildings instead of T4. It COULD be pumped out earlier, but it would at its earliest match enemy weapon upgrades. We might then see some side teching for once. T4 could allow for +1 weapon slot so non upgraded cons could have 2 slots and 7 man could have 1. Small things like that that make each tier attractive in its own right and bolsters the use ability of cons would be great imo
7th men with 1 slot is bad idea as long as the are intentional drop-able weapons available. It change very little in 1vs1 and creates all sort of issues in team games. |
I disagree completely.
Conscripts can't handle lights, so you already have the need for penals/guards or T2.
Cons won't certainly handle new, early PGs, so you have a need for penals/guards/shocks.
Cons will quickly start falling behind volks in early and mid game once StGs appear, which means penals/maxims/elites are needed again.
And the most important thing you really seem to forget about is the fact that this con upgrade is T4 and cons start falling behind as soon as 5th minute of the game due to appearing opposing elites and weapon upgrades.
Early game con spam is going to be as easily counterable as it is now. 4 cons might see re appearance without the need of ppsh doctrine, but more then that at you'll be shooting yourself at foot again, hell if 7th man upgrade isn't scaling them sufficiently enough, 4 cons already might be a bad idea.
And that is precisely why cons need to be made viable at end game as well.
So we do NOT HAVE to spam one single type of unit to carry the weight of mainline alone.
Cons being cheaper then penals and maxims specifically allow for diversity as now you have a bit of extra resources to put in other options without the absolute need to resort to spam that other options exclusively as it was the case with penals, maxims and guards up until this point in time.
You can disagree as much you like, but you suggested that Conscripts spam should become a viable tactic not me and that makes the rest of yor post irrelevant.
Have a nice day. |
Doesn't really cause any problem with assault engineers. Removing their SVT first cuts their damage even with it dramatically. If it is too much, fine, leave it to the CEs. The swap to mosin and PPSH/PTRS options would still suit me fine.
Assault engineer are 5 men with smg (that have low dps at range 20) not 6 men. (and yea they do cause problems.) |
Penals always had a role. But because cons were a dumpster fire they had to carry T1 builds on their own, et viola, we have the current state of penals.
They're an assault unit deaigned to remove fortifications. That is why they had flamethrowers and satchel charges. The SVT choice was always dumb but what are you gonna do. I agree that they have lost their identity but only because cons were so bad. Their AT rifles, at least, make sense. Forcing soviet T1 builds to ALWAYS have to pick guards for AT is not a good design choice and restricts variety in builds. Similarly, forcing shock troop commanders for bunker removal is bad. We HAD soviets where commanders were mandatory to have a full tool kit and it was a miserable time.
Engineers are also not durable enough to charge anything with a demo charge.
In my ideal design:
Conscript stats stay. As non-doc upgrades they can choose to buy two ppsh, three svt or two PTRS. They are now a versatile squad that can always bring something to any commander, but their upgrades are worse at their job than dedicated squads for any job. They exist to plug any hole in your army build with acceptable and cheap units. Side tech costs are reduced further. The doctrinal packages are upgrades to the normal ones: ppsh cons get more PPSH and maybe 5% RA. PTRS cons get more rifles and the grenade volley.
Give penals a mosin. Allow them to pick either three PTRS, three PPSH or a single flamethrower. T1 now has decent AT and a CQC squad. Penals no longer are just better conscripts and they are only good in close as assault troops.
Remove the guard PTRS. Give them a single DP as default with button. Allow them to buy one or two more DPs. Maybe even reduce their close range mosin damage. They are now a dedicated long range firepower squad and they rely on other unuts for AT damage and defending against CQC squads. T2 has maxims and at guns, t1 has penals, either of them have conscriots as cheap line filler.
Shocks are still damage dealing tanks with smoke and frags. Their simplicity is a strength.
There you go. Elite infantry have distinct roles. Penals have a job and don't just beat cons at all ranges. Conscripts don't excell at anything but they can do a little bit of everything, from sandbags to grenades to merging.
6 men penals with flamer is an incredibly bad idea. |
Relic Entertainment
T.R. Seeking 
d0ggY^ 
KimbO 
ProDigyIgi 
