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Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
YES, Now go look at what those changes were. HINT: I already mentioned them. All they changed on the 19th was the speed while launching smoke, popcost, and its crews moving acc (hardly a huge buff) Jesus dude
All the changes you mentioned came before comet nerf
That claim is incorrect, Churchill has high acceleration and rotation and is not easy to flank.
That claim is also incorrect Churchill has received a number of buff like lowering fuel cost and defensive smoke.
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Now pls stop wasting all our time and simply move on.
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Vet 3 Panther having less armor than a KV-1 really shows you where this game went. Down the drain. The community devs just had the idea of getting rid of most good German vet options. Be it the vehicle vet 2 or be it the OKW vet levels which essentialy got nerfed away totally.
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Total armor is way lower on the Panther. Also StuG has less pen than Allied tds. Play against the KV-1 and witness the amount of bounces and you will see what I mean.
The table you are quoting is literally saying a vet 3 (2) Panther has more frontal armor (286) than the KV-1 (270).
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
As of the next patch, the SU-76's chance to frontally penetrate a Brummbar or a Panther at 50 range is 62%.
That drops to 56% for the Panther and 47% for the Brummbar when they get their skirts.
EDIT: Unless it interpolates. In that case, a little higher.
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Total armor is way lower on the Panther
Posts: 1217
Really? Historical accuracy? Okay. The KV1 is outdated and can be penetrated regularily by a Panzer IV.
So what? It fits their roles and it is historically accurate.
The Panther had 40mm side and rear armor and 45mm of turret side and rear armor.
The KV-1 had 75mm side armor and 60mm rear armor, and 75mm of turret side and rear armor.
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
After you. Make a worthwhile point besides just arguing with people. Do you think the churchill should be nerfed and how? Otherwise you're the only one wasting peoples time
BTW i was rading plenty carefully. "A number of buffs" is a BS claim. It received 3, and none of them were significant. and saying "defensive smoke" is not the same as actually saying the change correctly. Which is a speed while the smoke is being launched.
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Ok you seem to have engaged in personal vendetta.
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Some misconceptions.
1- USF roflstomped OH, so they gave OH an MG42 at T0 and mp to handle them. Nerf of RET lead to basically just rifle spam strats with 0 possibility of any variation early on because tech is too slow. Mortar was design to offer an alternative.
2- Penals were the original only squad which had a flamethrower which never exploded. Flamethrower crit was removed couple of years after launch for all other units. Penals either saw little/niche use when they were a 360mp squad with G43 like DPS on their SVTs and basically no use when they were made into 270mp units. Penals were made the defacto unit for Soviets, when you basically removed Maxims from the game and Conscripts were stripped of their cheese abilities and their muni cost increased, in favour of stats boost which never manage to cut it to viable state.
3- Anything that screams cheese has been nerfed or changed to be harder to pull off. They no longer are IWIN buttons on their own.
4- Volks shrecks were not nerfed, just plained removed when the faction received a complete rework like no other faction received. Double sturm has always been a niche opening, either post or pre rework. Obers saw plenty of use when they were completely broken and after that it has always been an issue of having them arrive way too late into the game.
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The table you are quoting is literally saying a vet 3 (2) Panther has more frontal armor (286) than the KV-1 (270). The Panther having less rear armor than the KV-1 is logical because of their roles and it is realistic on top of that.
Posts: 1289
Vet 3 Panther having less armor than a KV-1 really shows you where this game went. Down the drain. The community devs just had the idea of getting rid of most good German vet options. Be it the vehicle vet 2 or be it the OKW vet levels which essentialy got nerfed out of the game. The heavy tank buff for Allies was just the cherry on top.
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Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
Right well.. On topic we still come to the issue of meatshields. They need to be difficult to dislodge but also dangerous enough to WANT to dislodge (live cons suffer from this atm. Durable but no teeth) if it's not difficult to dislodge then it's not a meatshield (see the old kv-1 for details) if it's too hard to push off then it's OP (see the old KT)
Its a difficult road to balancing this type of unit. Imo it's made more difficult by being able to potentially field multiple. A single churchill is a pain, a pair is unstoppable. I realise that's a load of resources but it's in the realm of possibility.
I would:
Drop health to standard heavy tank levels-even as a meatshield it is a bit forgiving
Limit it to 1 on field as a call in (similar treatment to comet to make it attractive) once anvil is etched-its easier to balance knowing it can't be massed
Reduce popcap and price to compensate-this makes it easier to make it part of your army without being either dead weight or absolutely overpowered
Go from there and see if it needs more changes.
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I would:
Drop health to standard heavy tank levels-even as a meatshield it is a bit forgiving
Limit it to 1 on field as a call in (similar treatment to comet to make it attractive) once anvil is etched-its easier to balance knowing it can't be massed
Reduce popcap and price to compensate-this makes it easier to make it part of your army without being either dead weight or absolutely overpowered
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Considering that Panther is Wehr main tank to counter Allies heavy, yet its armor is weak to support this role as a mobile tank counter. It got no vet bonus to supplement this role, no penetration increase, no move accuracy increase, no damage increase. Just weak 90-99 armor on its 2nd half that even cheap SU76 can deal 120 damage from 60 range. SU76 need not flank it, just have a nice angle side opening, i repeat rear armor is not rear armor, but 50% of the tank.
Allies TD all out range it, allies infantry all have super fast snares, Soviet even have heavy engine damage. And best of all, Allies TD on vet get pen bonus that completely ignores panther vet armor. Poor scaling for Wehr, dont you agree?
And when you list out all TD available to each factions, their ranges, their penetration, their damage, their accuracy, their vet bonus. Dont make sense why Allies need so strong rear armor tanks that are still popcap affordable.
1. Usf mortar quickly fell out of favor until smoke got moved from rifles.
2. I did have pene flamethrowers explode. Its possible that had them pick a dropped flamer wich could explode. But its quite while ago.
I agree with the penal conscript maxim statement. Though i find cons and having cheese a bit of a stretch.
3. I agree. Allies needed cheese to win the late game. Wich was complained about a lot. Now they still complain. No more paperweight late game to callin meta.
4. Volks overlap with both obers and sturms and are a lot cheaper and easier to use. That and obers no longer being op as fuck makes volks the choice. Cheap, puch above their weight, durable, while having sandbags and snare plus incindiary and stg upgrade. The last 3 the lacked before their change.
Posts: 4928
Doctrines exist specifically for that.
If you can't handle(as in lack of skill, because tools are there for all factions now) something, pick a doctrine that'll make it easy for you.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
it is difficult to limit to one on field (same as the comet) since you give up or the Comet or the Churchill. I mean, OKW get one per field KT but still can combine it with a panther. Same goes for the Tiger which can be combined with the panther or brumbar.
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