No, nobody undervalues it, but it's not worth regardless, especially because you WILL need to bring your grenadiers back to HQ to reinforce where they will have some of the longest reinforce time of all mainline infantry, so a bunker would heal them regardless
VSL Grens aren't worth it at all right now. They are absolutely terrible in practice because they don't win fights like MG42 Grens do. They attempt to have a universal average effective range, but this ends up with them losing fights at pretty much all ranges because they don't have a strength in combat meaning not only do they lose map control, but they bleed harder and take longer to reinforce due to having extra models.
Free Medkits are nice, but they don't actually allow you to skip Med Bunkers because your Pios and your Stormtroopers and your MG42 still need to heal and you can't spend all your mainline's time healing other units with a single target ability. If this ability was akin to the Infantry Section group heal it would be significantly better for VSL's ability to skip medics.
Conscript 7-Man upgrade is good because it doesn't have better competition, it bolsters their strength which is fighting from Green Cover at distance, and it provides other unique benefits to Cons such as better ability to merge, cheaper reinforce cost and faster vet. VSL Grens don't fulfill the same role having to directly compete with MG42 Grens which is the premier distance fighting upgrade so it attempts to turn Grens into some Jack of all Trades squad which ultimately doesn't work, and it only provides a singular minor benefit in free medkits while having several weaknesses such as the aforementioned heavier bleed, slower reinforce time, and the lack of damage output that the MG42 upgrade would provide.
The reinforce time i didnt take into account. I get the impact of that now. Maybe reinforce time reduction and/or a discount to reinforce cost can be added instead of raw dps wich was proven to strong.
One vollying a model at long range often deciding the fight then and there in most cases. Its to powerfull for a 240 mp squad imo. |
I'm not the one saying it's bad other people are. And so I wasn't sure if it is bad or good because I'm low xp. If it is still a viable choice great! That's exactly what I'm hoping for. It just happens to he my favorite gren upgrade so I would be sad if it is not good.
I think a lot of people undervalue the field presence it can give and the muni and mp it can save with free med kits. Its not as noticable as raw dps. |
Because it is, the dps increase is minimal compared to mg42 and unlike the conscipts update their reinforce price doesn't change
Grenadiers VSL is the worst upgrade in game for infantry right now
You are trading dps for... bleeding more?
The bleeding more is reduced by the free med kits and recc acc. This saves mp (and muni) in the same sence as reduced reinforce for 7th man. Who bleed the most models by far in the game. For them it makes sence. Soviets is mp starved the most.
Bleeding mp for more field presence isent bad. It translates into more recources in fuel and muni as you will probaly hold more or take more ground.
Conscripts dont get an lmg or cant get svt or ppsh with 7th man. It would be to strong. Wich the old vsl was as proven. |
I just don't see the point in having a doctrinal upgrade to grens that is the same price as lmg42 but worse
P4 Command Tank isn't getting light artillery
how is it worse? Dps increase is not all their is to an upgrade. 7thm man is redgard fine by most, and insanely op according to some.
Vsl adresses a certain weakness of grens. Survivability and field presence. They dont need nor should be 5 men terminators, ost has plenty strong ai options already. And 4 men lng grens do well at range esp shen supported.
Indevidual grenadier models are very strong imo, strongest out of all mainlines again imo. just slapping one extra k98 in their has a lot more impact then slapping a conscript model with mosin in their on a cons squad. |
It's louder than a Panzer IV
Very true, but not when its stopped and in camoflage. |
Thread: RK 43 7 May 2021, 09:53 AM
Maybe we can look at the speed during the retreat of the raketten. I mean they are pushing a wheeled shreck. Lower speed in this way can punish agressive or reckless raketten plays more.
This ofcourse if raketten retreat with the same speed as regular infantry. |
I will tell you a thing its been there for the reason to counter SPG since Coh2 existed but just guy named skippy and the allied fanbois complained its brainded and boom its gone.
Axis boys did the same to the demo. And okw got a mobile and stealthy one in return. |
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The recource disadvantidge axis have in 1v1 evaporate in big modes. Esp with t4 units such as panthers tigers and superheavies this becomes a problem.
Giving axis a recource penalty esp fuel in bigger modes can help bring the recource gain and effieciency in line for axis. Or increase the price of axis units esp tanks and of those esp big cats such as panthers and up. |
the whole it cost 30muni is weak justification. which flare and recon planes don't?
in the era when the concerns is back on sight abilities like spotting scopes, specs ops and sniper sight, it's cheeky that sov mortar was missed
even sov sniper needs vet to unlock flare, yet a more durable mortar unit got away
as i said, because of how low key flare graphical representation is, most opponents don't know what hits them in late game
whenever i play sov, i am very very happy to deploy mortar flare, such a cheeky give away
sov mortar is better than ost mortar, there i said it. what's cb going to do? hit back at katy?
Recon planes cover a wider area, most are off maps wich dont require a unit to be in range. Yes they can be shot down but again the area covered and ease of deployement is better. And if the opponent dont have aa (allies have less ai late game cuz axis have pintles on everything) its got free reighn.
If soviet mortar is better then how come it needed the flare to vet0 to help it out?
The soviet mortar didnt get buffed outside the flare vet 0. Its the ost mortar that got toned down hard. For 1/3 less hp it was minmaly twice as good in damage. |
why would flare on ost be batshit op? tell us then.
soviet dont have lower base performance these days, not as much. sorry.
players dont feel the impact of vet0 mortar flare because of how innocuous looking during its activation.
but when i play sov (4v4, im not good as sov 2v2), i drop flares like a lmao to reveal the map for big rewards. its really rewarding late game, too ez.
You spamm flares and you can still upgrade inf, plant mines, call in offmaps?
You are right that scouting and vision is very strong and rewarding. But in soviets case all scouting/ vision abilities are behind muni/vet or both or behind a toggle with downsides.
Only the m3 isent and comes close the 222 with none of these downsides but its incredebly easy to kill and isent used nearly at all anymore. |
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