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Black Prince Poll

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18 Jul 2021, 14:57 PM
#21
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 990 | Subs: 1

Churchill Mk VII - just a very heavy armored churchill. Armor is better then a Tiger 1 one, 75mm gun

Churchill Mk VIII - 95 mm howitzer gun. Could be like a brummbar. Or a short range arty

Churchill Mk V - same arty\AI unit.

Hell even Gun Carrier, 3-inch, Mk I, Churchill. While it was never used, it was build, its an early war unit and it makes much more sence then BP.
Pip
18 Jul 2021, 15:12 PM
#22
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580

Given that we already have the Churchill (and possibly variants like the Croc and AVRE) in CoH3, I really would think that the Comet would be a better choice to fill the exact same niche. I think you could likely slot the Comet in the place of the BP and not even have to change the statistics.

Multiple variants of the same tank causes a bit of redundancy... and can make it somewhat harder to note at a glance what unit you're looking at.

In a similar vein: I hope they replace the UKF Sherman with something else, since USF already have multiple Shermans. The Grant or Cromwell would be ideal... with the Grant having never featured in the games before as a bonus.
18 Jul 2021, 16:58 PM
#23
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2021, 15:12 PMPip
Given that we already have the Churchill (and possibly variants like the Croc and AVRE) in CoH3, I really would think that the Comet would be a better choice to fill the exact same niche. I think you could likely slot the Comet in the place of the BP and not even have to change the statistics.


Comet would be better than BP would would still feel out of place. I know I have said this like 10x already but imo it would be refreshing having to work with "Shit tanks" like Pz3 or Panzer 4 / Sherman and have the rare Tiger I (maybe even rare Panther) / Churchill (Croc) once in a while.

CoH2 has just oversaturated me with (Super) Heavies


jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2021, 15:12 PMPip

Multiple variants of the same tank causes a bit of redundancy... and can make it somewhat harder to note at a glance what unit you're looking at.


What if we gave different Churchill variants (or different tanks in general, instead of one skin / vehile class) different skins? Similar to Tiger ace. That would add way more variety and distinctiveness than a gun that is a bit longer


jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2021, 15:12 PMPip

In a similar vein: I hope they replace the UKF Sherman with something else, since USF already have multiple Shermans. The Grant or Cromwell would be ideal... with the Grant having never featured in the games before as a bonus.


Isn't the UKF sherman currently literally the same as the US one? Replacing it with the Sherman V would be a start I guess. Other than that: Grant needs do be added. That is for sure, but I doubt that they will make it the main battletank of UKF as it was very weak. I made a post over at the Dev. Forum that suggested implementing Grant/ Lee maybe as a Command Tank too

Thread
18 Jul 2021, 17:04 PM
#24
avatar of LordRommel
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 278 | Subs: 1

I have checked my files and to be honest i cant find any
Grant/Lee tanks in Italy nor any Cromwell or Comet tanks.
18 Jul 2021, 17:12 PM
#25
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

I have checked my files and to be honest i cant find any
Grant/Lee tanks in Italy nor any Cromwell or Comet tanks.


This article claims that there were Grant based flail tanks used in Sicily




it also claims that there were M3 Command tanks used in Italy up until 1945



(saw this picture on Wikipedia too, where it was too claimed that this is in Italy but sadly can't find it at the moment)
18 Jul 2021, 17:20 PM
#26
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2098 | Subs: 2

I'm waiting for Renault D1 who fought against both the Allies and the Germans in Africa in 1943.
http://www.tankarchives.ca/2017/06/renault-d1-ft-on-steroids.html
18 Jul 2021, 17:38 PM
#27
avatar of LordRommel
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 278 | Subs: 1



This article claims that there were Grant based flail tanks used in Sicily
[...]

(saw this picture on Wikipedia too, where it was too claimed that this is in Italy but sadly can't find it at the moment)


So only some Scorpion IV were brought to Sicily and Italy.
I could find some M3 Lee tanks for the 34th US Infantry Division on Sicily.
So at least we have some Lee's on Sicily. Fine. Well done. Will add it to my theater list ^^
18 Jul 2021, 17:40 PM
#28
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



So only some Scorpion IV were brought to Sicily and Italy.
I could find some M3 Lee tanks for the 34th US Infantry Division on Sicily.
So at least we have some Lee's on Sicily. Fine. Well done. Will add it to my theater list ^^


(Since I saw your post on the Dev. site I will also add one article here that says that there were Valentines in Italy)

Link

(The article is not really well sourced)


Edit:

By June 1943 the War Office had deleted
Valentines from British tank units, although many remained in Soviet,
Australian, New Zealand and Indian service, while British units in Europe
retained Valentines as artillery observation vehicles (main armament
removed), Bridgelayers, amphibious tanks, and tractors.
Valentine XI tanks (with 75mm guns) were used by anti-tank battalion
and battery commanders in the campaigns in north-west Europe and Italy
from late 1944 onwards.


Page 17 VALENTINE Infantry tank 1938–45, BRUCE OLIVER NEWSOME Ph.D
Pip
19 Jul 2021, 00:47 AM
#29
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580



What if we gave different Churchill variants (or different tanks in general, instead of one skin / vehile class) different skins? Similar to Tiger ace.




Exceedingly unlikely, since Relic are almost certainly going to be selling vehicle camouflage again. It's also possible they might extend that system to infantry, either through camouflage patterns, or even uniform variations.
19 Jul 2021, 02:42 AM
#30
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1065

On the off-chance that someone from Relic reads this, I’d like to say that I do not want the heavy tank meta to return.

I’d be interested in having a lower tier of medium vehicles/tanks and then a final higher class of medium tanks.

The beauty of a game set in 1943 (I really do wish it was 1942, though) is that we get to avoid all of the late game monsters that were either allied prototypes or meth-fueled Nazi pipe dreams brought to life as desperate weapons.

All that said, we don’t need the black prince. Thanks for everyone else for doing the research. It looks like we’ve got lots of potential alternatives to work with that were present in the theater (Italy, presumably).
19 Jul 2021, 02:56 AM
#31
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1759 | Subs: 2

You guys seem to be having so much fun talking about a tank in a video game. While I am blissful in my lack of WW2 knowledge and can just enjoy the game.

Does everyone lose their shit when they play as soviets and land on some French based map??? Or when they see a piano or bath tub in a field because Coh2 seriously lacked useful models?

"Do you think that is air you are breathing?"
19 Jul 2021, 03:56 AM
#32
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

Who cares? coh was never about realism, no one is crying about infrared stg44's in coh or ultra rare units like the ostwind
19 Jul 2021, 03:57 AM
#33
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

They also add black soldiers to airborne so yeah very realstic game
Oh no theres black people in my game boohoo cry more
19 Jul 2021, 04:00 AM
#34
avatar of Just Perfect

Posts: 11

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2021, 11:52 AMButcher
Black soldiers fought in the war. Black princes didn't. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

What about this guy? :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junio_Valerio_Borghese
19 Jul 2021, 04:30 AM
#35
avatar of Rubberluck

Posts: 42

They also add black soldiers to airborne so yeah very realstic game


The Triple Nickels would like to say you're full of shit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555th_Parachute_Infantry_Battalion_(United_States)

Your prejudice is showing.
19 Jul 2021, 06:27 AM
#36
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 369

Its retarded, I'm curious to see how it will be balanced. In COH2 the Konigstiger has a movement rate of 5kph max, its around the same speed as infantry. IRL its top speed was 49kph. Black Prince had a movement speed of 10kph IRL, watch it move like a Panther in COH3. Even though it was scrapped for being far too slow and never made it past prototype.
19 Jul 2021, 07:42 AM
#37
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3475 | Subs: 1

I really hope they add the black prince, so you guys don't buy the game. :wave:


Aside from that, it seems pretty clear Relic wants to give a special heavy unit to every faction. So they put an end with the actual design of factions being designed around lacks and OP units to compensate.
We shall all be glad about that instead of jerking because the black prince wasn't in Italy.
19 Jul 2021, 07:48 AM
#38
avatar of Harry

Posts: 159

Seriously, time to stop this drama.
If you guys want to see an independent Italian, or maybe the Japanese forces present in the game. There is no other way but to introduce some phototypes or even pure made-up units. Neither of these two countries even had a formidable army during the war.
Let us be honest here, at least in CoH2, the main deciding factor in the late games in team games are how many heavy tanks each player has. Which, to some degree, is a great blessing to the German force but a complete turn down for the Italian and the Japanese. P40 never served in the Italian army. Type-3, oh well, got somewhat present in the war, was still only a direct counterpart to the Sherman.
That is being said, if any of you guys think you are smart enough to present a roster for those two forces without introducing any phototype. Go ahead, do it, and show them here.
19 Jul 2021, 08:08 AM
#39
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2098 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 07:48 AMHarry
Seriously, time to stop this drama.
If you guys want to see an independent Italian, or maybe the Japanese forces present in the game. There is no other way but to introduce some phototypes or even pure made-up units. Neither of these two countries even had a formidable army during the war.
Let us be honest here, at least in CoH2, the main deciding factor in the late games in team games are how many heavy tanks each player has. Which, to some degree, is a great blessing to the German force but a complete turn down for the Italian and the Japanese. P40 never served in the Italian army. Type-3, oh well, got somewhat present in the war, was still only a direct counterpart to the Sherman.
That is being said, if any of you guys think you are smart enough to present a roster for those two forces without introducing any phototype. Go ahead, do it, and show them here.


Wrong answer. One of the few Carro Armato P 40s used by RSI (Repubblica Sociale Italiana). This tank was abandoned at the end of May 1945 in Milan.

19 Jul 2021, 08:16 AM
#40
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

I always find it odd what people do and do not take umbridge with. It's so arbitrarily selective that I can't help but laugh.

V2 you can aim with pinpoint accuracy on the head of a single soldier? Fine because the V2 was fired, sound logic.
Magic wallhack halftracks? Absolutely fine. The physical thing existed so what it does is 100% irrelevent.

People who care about historical accuracy and immersion so much they'll have a fit about a prototype unit designed being used in a game series where you can fire two panzershrecks inside a garden shed with absoutely no consequences.

People really like to pick their standards of historical accuracy when it suits them.

I get why it's there. The meta of the heavy tank being the culmination of the tech tree is a thing. The US and UK didn't waste the resources fielding fleets of ever larger heavies in the real war (because, make no mistake, heavy tanks were a waste) - so dragging out some vehicles that went through trials is a way to avoid the skew towards the Axis. And the other churchill designs exist, so visually it's pretty small deviation. They didn't even adjust it to reflect the wider hull.

I'd rather see a BP than a Centurion. Even if both of them were designed and first minted in '43 and '45.

I wonder if they'll stick with the Pershing for the US, skip it alltogether, or we'll see the M6 heavy roll in from the testing grounds...
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