Well its not like this cant be applyed to any other rocket arty in the game really. If caliope comes when the basic army foundation is already established, then this is not an argument.
Its more like you put resources in it and not putting them into another TD\Medium. But again, same works for any other arty in the game.
I cant really see how caliope is crippeling USF economy that bad, that if called in you wont have tools to protect it, meaning it needs more durability.
Hell, caliope is actually the best rocket arty in the game, or at least very close second (depending on the opinion on panzerwerfer). Katy is useless if you wont drive close with it and land matters is over nerfed garbo. Not counting zu-fuss because its a different unit.
Even if caliope had 320HP (2 shots from tanks) it already would have been 100% more durable then any other rocket arty, simply because:
1) It cant die to small arms
2) It cant be one-shotted
3) It cant be killed by cheap units like 222
4) Cant be counter artyed
Having 400 HP just an over-kill in terms of durability, even for a premium unit. Ppl were complaining about zu-fuss having 320 HP and here we are having 400 HP rocket arty, with armor on top of it.
Zu fus could eliminate an entire defensive line, weapons included with pinpoint accuracy while also coming drastically sooner and being cheaper than the calliope.
Frankly, imo, the calliope should be a Sherman variant or upgrade with a munitions barrage like the firefly. It puts strain on the economy for over use which is a balancing factor on its own but also justifies its durability slightly more.
I don't remember the exact cost since it was changed a bit ago, but you are basicly paying more for a worse katyusha EXCEPT that it's more durable. |
with what? Last I checked the calliope outranges any AT gun that has the off chance of surviving a shotgun barrage to them.
TIL the AT gun is the only thing that shoots and is capable of shooting rocket arty.
one might try, p4s, pumas, panthers, shreks, tigers, elefants, jagdtigers, pak43s, perhaps stuka close air, or dive bombs..
the resources put into the calliope are resources not put into defending it after all. durability is its whole shtick. thats why it comes at a premium |
And? They're really strong for what they are, and come on a unit that is also really strong. Better than normal nades is fine, but they're kind of insane and it's not like shocks need any help beating reasonable amounts of axis infantry in CQC.
How do they do less than rangers? Rangers literally have 1 ability, and it's just a worse nade. Paras have a couple weapon upgrades but they're not exactly any less of a specialist anti infantry elite infantry unit.
And no, paras never had sprint. That'd be OP as fuck.
it was added specifically to give shocks some sort of burst which they lack. ots a ranged ability on a bayonet ranged infantry.
last checked rangers had the ability to use weapon racks, including carrying 3 super zooks making them the best AT infantry in the game, or getting thompsons making them comparable to shocks but alos retaining a weapon slot allowing them to scavenge or slap a bar on them.
as for para being specialist AI infantry... thats the point. they are not. they can be speced for long or short range (or AT) and all sorts of other goodies. they dont need a better nade as they have a number of other cool things going for them.
noted on the sprint, thats my error. |
Alright thanks. Now the question I have to ask is what is OKW without stuka dive bomb supposed to do? It’s still three tank round shots unless Elite Armor’s used.
Shoot it 3 times. |
Isn't weapon range tied to cast range? What's the point of the existance of that attribute then? I didn't know weapon range means s***
I think it's just in the instance of arty as it lacks auto fire the weapon range is arbitrary but the ability range (meaning the barrage) is what matters. |
I simply responded to an argument that shock troops are meant to have better grenades by design. That is is not simply the case.
Imo Shocks are the strongest QCQ and they are more powerful than rangers or paras, regardless how close that is they are the remain the closest thing at least imo.
(as for sprint paras do not get it.)
In any case, OP has a point about the grenades.
But their nades are not the way they are by accident. They were specifically tuned to that so their nade IS better by design. It may not be by their initial design but hardly anything in the soviet faction still is. They had to adapt with the times.
As for shocks being the strongest CQB unit... That's literally the point I'm making. They do less than paras and rangers so they are better at what they do. Including but not limited to their grenade.
I thought paras got sprint via vet no? I could be wrong. Happens more than I'd like to admit...
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Seeing less action is fine. Metas change, and more importantly the balance team has been doing a great job of reviving dead units and commanders. What's important is that it IS seen, does its job well and people are not complaining one way or the other about it. This is the first thread about it in a good while and it's a result of Stat comparing not even gameplay. |
What I have pointed out so far is that Shock where not designed to better grenades as claimed.
As for "specialist" the closest thing to Shock troops are ranges/smg paras who use the cooked grenade that is inferior to shock's grenades
A lot of things don't function as they were designed. What's important is their current design doesn't alter faction design and they remain a unique and fun unit for both sides of the VP.
As for smg paras being the closest thing, if o recall smg paras also have tactical advance to make them more spooky, self healing, a timed demo, forward reinforcement and sprint with vet. The closest thing isn't so close really.... |
Shock;s grenades are not "on par" with cooked grenades they simply superior.
you are not looking anywhere near the package though. balance has to do with context. units with cooked nades can do more. shocks do the one thing they do really well. specialists ALWAYS are more efficient for similar costs at their one job. ALWAYS. having a slightly better nade isnt an issue, certainly not game breaking and far from needing to be on the 4th page of a discussion...
if shocks were more versatile i would be on board with bringing the nade more inline with other, more flexible units grenades. but they are not, so it doesnt need to be changed. |
No.
Shock troops where originally designed to have a weaker grenade with sorter fuse.
The MOD team according to the patch notes decided to:
"We are also improving the performance of the Shock Troops’ grenade to be on par with other anti-infantry specialists."
In order to do that they should either increase the fuse time and damage and AOE profile to be "on par" with bundle grenades or keep the sort fuse and make the profile similar to cooked grenades.
Keeping the sort fuse and they increasing the damage made the grenade superior to "other anti-infantry specialists"
Unless of course it say, has a smaller AOE. I'm which case it can be "on par" without being a wipe machine.
Again, combined with their short range and lack of utikity/combat flexibility the slightly more effecient grenade is acceptable. If you are not paying attention while shocks close to begin with you will be punished pretty hard, this just gives them burst potential. They can't camo, sprint, equip AT, equip AI weapons, self heal, fire lmgs they pick up on the move, no FRP no forward heals. They do one thing, really well. And that's OK |
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