This logic is always amusing to me. "Can we buff [FACTION]?" "Only if we nerf [FACTION] into the ground as a trade-off]. I think it would be neat to have the 76mm available to USF, personally I kind of think it always should have been. Maybe even determine if you get 75 or 76 based off whether you got Lt or Cpt, or just have the 76 be a more expensive tech.
But I am less concerned about USF than I am than about Soviets, whose best medium tank is the worst in the game by a considerable margine. The T-34-76 struggles to dent Panzer IV's and holds no candle to Panthers. Much like how USF are forced to rely on the Jackson, Soviets are forced to rely on the SU-85, lest they be chewed up and spit out by Panthers or Tigers.
Heavier armour is supposed to force a better AT. The problem Relic made was making the Panther so accessible. Back when it was only in ost t4 it was arguably restricted but once it became the main tank of okw and then later a 100mp roadblock for ost it destroyed any chance of medium v medium play. Allied players are GOING to get their heavy TD because the enemy MIGHT get a Panther and there is no reason not to as the td is just as effective vs any other target. The element of cat and mouse and escalation is removed from the game along with a number of units that will never have a place now as a result.
how about once all OKW trucks are deployed, ST-pios get acess to a timed repair boost +25 faster rep for 10-15 seconds?
repair truck is not something that breaks the game, if there are 2+ mech-trucks parked together in teamgames yes, it becomes a hassle, but also very exposed if out in the field, either keep it back in base, which is fine for faster tanks, but if you gotta drive slow or engine-crippled tanks back to repair them, its a pain in the ***.
If deployed in the field, its a prime target for hit and run dives or artillery.
repair trucks are a bonus to have, but not a replacement for ST-pios, and getting 2 ST-pio's is 600MP and 16 pop, high cost.
Repair trucks are there so if your sturms are busy or dead you are not without. The entire OKW was designed around managing if you lose your important units (or tech trucks). Losing your shit is supposed to hurt and the faction most rewarded for keeping their shit alive is hurt the most for losing them. If you don't put your sturms on the front odds of losing them are drastically reduced, as is their impact. If you want to leverage their initial impact you risk losing them. It's as risk/reward as any design can be. Well not quite since you CAN get repair dudes on your truck to metigate the loss slightly. But it's up to the player to decide if the risk is worth the reward.
Yeah reminds me soviet NKVD commisar, with its ability costing 20 muni less because it has 20% chance of bad RNG and 70% chance of good RNG.
25% is a only can really make a diffrence if you face 1 AT\TD and you are unlucky. Other then that 65% of succsess is pretty much stable and more or less predictable rng.
because there is no alignment for RNG to keep it true 25% can mean nothing or it can mean 7 bounces in a row. 25% chance to receive no damage is decent enough odds. but it help against any number of threats. if it takes 4 shots to kill being able to bounce even one shot, or say, 25% of incoming shots can make a difference.
Because it either that\heavyes or TDs it would face almost always.
and the p4 will do better against those targets than any other stock medium because of its better stats and scaling...
It is hard counter, but its not AS POWERFULL as ppl tend to present this unit. Its not some magic unit which will solve all your problems with support weapons. I'm not saying that it should. But saying "hurr you can have stuka to solve AT gun walls" is at very best misleading. Sometimes it can, sometimes it cant.
Or it can miss (by unit beeing between rockets), or it might didnt finish, or enemy can doudge. You really should speak about this aswell, not only about the part where it is effective.
I'il repeat myself, I dont think its weak, buts its not a magic unit either.
except it does. the enemy can spread out and it can miss this is true, RNG is RNG after all, but on the whole it is a hard counter. anyways you cant really use " it could miss" as an argument. an elefant could miss a universal carrier but i still consider it a hard counter. the stuka is designed to break up pak walls. thats its thing. it does it well
PIV doesnt force allies into TDs. Allies themself force themself into TDs. Because if Axis would go for heavy armor TDs would counter them, if Axis go for mediums TDs would counter them.
The same you as Axis shouldn't go for mediums if Allies are bringing doc mediums or Heavy tanks.
Its the same logic.
allies go for TDs both because they are fucking strong, and because their mediums cant fight effectivly against heavy armour (thus the TDs) all okw non light armour qualifies as heavy armour, exceeding the values of anything the combined 3 allied factions can field non doc with the lone exceptions of hammer/anvil tanks that are mutually exclusive. the p4 gives medium tank supremacy.
And its not THAT one-sided. OKW PIV armod doesnt make other mediums to feel like fighing tiger with T34\76 from the front.
i never said it was that one sided, nothing close, but a t34/76 has roughtly a 1 in 3 chance to pen the front of an okw p4. thats pretty damn close to making the t34 useless in a tank fight against a p4. the game is about positioning and plauying the odds. the better the odds the better your chance of winning. the okw p4 has the better odds.
You are doing cherry picking by comparing PIV to other mediums in a Allies TD\Call-in heavy dominated meta.
Lets say obersoldaten are the best long range AI inf and they have 5 vet. OKW inf play is OP.
That is if we just igrone that by the time they come they face vetted\upped inf.
Yes its overall perfomance better then other stock mediums. Does it change the fact that it wont face other stock mediums most of the time? No it doesnt. It corrent meta and corrent faction designes, its on pair with other mediums in terms of its impact, not stats vise. you dont pay for impact, you pay for stats. your luchs doesnt cost more if i buildi nothing but comabt engineers and never build a lick of AT. my t-70 doesnt get any cheaper if the ost player layed a teller on a road and i drove over it without it firing a shot. its impossible to price like that.
Again RAW STATS of unit is better, but its makes sence only when compared to its counterparts.
reread the underlined bits one after another if you would be so kind.
If by the time OKW would have had PIV allies could have had only Mediums (as you seem to like base your opinion on) then this raw stats would have made sence. the enemy build is as fluid as your own. they could have any number of things but that doesnt change the stats of the p4. which is best in class.
Again I want to point it out. I'm not saying OKW armor is weaker, I'm not saying allies are stronger. I'm saying that OKW armor aside from POSSIBLE vet and RAW STATS arent the best in the game, considering meta and what it would face.
you cant say they arnt the best because the enemy might have a counter on hand. they have the best stats doesnt mean they are uncounterable. the JT has the highest armour in the game for example, saying it can be rammed and il-bombed does not change that at all. it still has the highest armour, being able to get armour that by another means doesnt lower its armour (unless its WC-51 which actually DOES lower its armour, but interestingly enough it retains the highest armour even when lowered...)
If no one will be used this ability in special doctrines, it means that ability is badly designed. Right now we are already see bunch of posts about Il-2+Ram. The real answer about this ability - "the very nature of the ability is to not use it". I want that t-34 have good vet1 ability to use. Not cap point, not this awfull Ram that used once in blue moon. Why such powerfull vet1 ability as cap point almost never used? WHile blitz, almost every game. There are situational abilities, like Merge, Tactical assault, Smoke shot from Cromwell. They are good. WHile cap point is useless. Ram is almost useless if you don't have special commanders with offmaps. I saw numerous games on Dane channel - all players try to save their T-34, even when its health only 160 hp. Ram is so narrow ability outside some commanders, that compare to blitz or smoke from usf, looks like statistical misscalculation.
And i even don't speak about T-34/85. Who in sane would be use Ram for it? Or cap point?
I made for initial post about T-34 Ram some research and then drop it. But you can look on some statistic (only 13 from 20 games). I tried choose games where soviets build more than 1 t-34:
Some info:
Success Ram - enemy armor was hitted by ram from T-34
Failed Ram - T-34 died while trying to do ram
Success Blitz - armor make successful escape from battle while blitz active or blitz wasn't interrupted by snare.
Failed blitz - blitz was interrupted by snare or armor died while blitz was active.
its a bad DOCTRINAL ability not a bad ability. its a bad doctrinal ability because its not something you build around, its something that comes up for you to take advantage of. right now to ram you need a t34 you are willing to lose, it being in range and a target. add another layer of variable like having the commander in your load out and chosen as well for what might be a once used all game ability does not make sense. and you do not need an off map to take advantage of ram. a ram can mean your su85 getting another shot off or delaying an enemy tank enough for your ptrs penals to get into satchel range. its a rather felaxible ability all in all frankly though id preffer it to be a skill shot that you aim instead of a homing ability so it can be used and dodged a bit better.
as for the rest of the rambling about other tanks abilities and stuff, im not entirely sure what point you were trying to make so i cant properly respond to it... but cap terretory is plenty useful and can make a game. it also adds versatility to the t34. i have won games or at least delayed my loss by getting in with that cap territory . it suits the unit quite well as a part of the bigger picture despite its otherwise expendable nature and meh stats (aside from that great hull mg)
I understand position of axis players, especially in team-games this issue become very clear. Ram could be ability in some commanders, like OKW HEAT rounds or OH Tactician smoke. But for god sake, replace cap point and ram on something usefull ability that encourage players save their T-34 and not drop them in suicidal attacks.
Ram as a doctrinal ability is an awful idea because the very nature of the ability is to not use it. It's opportunity based not something you build around, this is in part why rapid conscription and relief infantry are so hard to make useful.
As for cap it actually makes sense on t34s as since they are supposed to be numerous it helps widen soviet map control.
I keep seeing this. What best tanks? Panther is the same as Ostpanther, PIV is being just slightly armored against mediums for additional 30 fuel, JP being german version of SU85 without self spotting.
Best AI LV? T-70. Best mobile suppresion ? M5 or M15A1. Puma is probably best AT LV, while AEC is close second.
Memetiger is only here to secure wictory, he will never ever win you game if allies didnt fucked up or have more then 1 braincell alive.
Or they have 5 lvl and even have it strate of the bat after 1 kill thats why they are by defo best.
Yeah say this to 2+ AT guns or TDs.
I think you are the one who should play NOT only allies, because what you saying is getting radicilios more and more.
If Katitof wasnt only trolling ppl who is more on the Axis side of the aurgument, he would have roasted your statements brutaly, I would have love to see this.
okw has both effective and flexible light vehcle play as well as medium/ heavy play where the lowest armoured vehcle has 230 armour
pak walls are hard countered with the stuka and all allied TDS are countered by the JP$ (jackson less so because reasons but will still lose in a slugging match)
and of course you always have the option of a heavy tank. it might not always be a good option, but you have it- even if only as a juicy target to get their TDs to sit and shoot while you counter them with something else.
to say the okw armour isnt the best around is simply false. they have great options and great performance as well as great scaling and can benifit from pop free repairs, when combined with sturms and sweepers gets them back onto the field very fast. you pay a lot with okw, but you get much more. you are also very well rewarded for keeping your shit alive, like your engineers for example....
The main consideration picking a commander should not be what you want to do, but rather what is your opponent doing.
It ma
That shouldn't be the case. Picking the wrong commander should not sink you, especially when it's possible to not only not have the commander in your chit, but possibly not even own it.
Commanders are much more difficult to balance if they are tying up lose ends. If each faction can stand on its own any and all commanders are flavor for play style and adding new units not making balance work
Yeah. Another sensible option I guess. And probably step on it should be muni paid. Doesn't have to be much but at least sth to end the frustration on the receiving end.
Mark target would be acceptable as a standard ability but I'd force the arty to be delayed to major tech as it is now. Since cav rifles have a rather short shelf life as it is I think this would be acceptable scaling. Price could go up if needed.
They still are very squishy. I think it does not need much effort to delete them from the field. Way too vulnerable for a unit that you need to cqc and repairs at the same time.
As said, when they need to repair their time as assault units, aside from the direst of times, is over. It's actually a pretty good transition. The entire point is needing to decide how best to use your limited resources. It's one of the more interesting faction designs that actually also translates into interesting gameplay.
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