not an expert on this but i don't think a no-aoe medcrate is possible without the potential exploit to heal multiple squads at once if timed right. hence why the sturmpio version got changed to aoe heal a while back. but maybe passive heal for squads inside the transport à la 251 ht might be an option
then a single AOE pack if required. I'm not a fan of the garrison healing for the soviet because they have only the HQ medics as is. The hope with the med kit is that you don't have to drag your AT gun all the way back to base or risk losing it and it's unable to garrison so it wouldn't fill the role I'm hoping for. But that's a personal take on it of course. |
Well I agree that the M3 is quite powerful against OKW, a solution for that specific situation may be just putting faust behind a truck called in instead of a truck deployed.
I'd love to see the sooner faust to be frank. It would be a very good change imo
Similarly I think the scout car being able to toss a medkit on the ground would help it find a role when it's front line time has expired. No AOE. Just a kit if that's possible. |
If we consider a Jackson - reworked E8 versus 2 panther scenario, I don’t think this would be the case, as it would still be about positioning, just the optimal positions would be different.
The USF player would want to whittle down the panthers at max range with his Jackson, while the E8 protects it from dives. If the USF player messes up with the Jackson, the Ost player can just dive past the E8 and kill the Jackson, or if he messes up with the E8 the panthers can snipe it and the Jackson won’t have the dps to kill the panthers before the E8 dies.
Conversely, if the USF player plays well, he can whittle down a panther with his Jackson and then dive it with the E8, killing the panther, or if the panthers dive and he keeps the Jackson at max range while microing the E8 to point blank, he can also kill the panthers.
So there are ways for each side to win
Except the axis are still on the back foot by needing 175x2 fuel to possibly maybe fight off 140x2 and anything less is hopeless.
JP4 beats both.
Just a reminder.
Don't remind me remind Ostheer. |
So 50% of those units all come in doctrines as opposed to the m3a1 which is literally in t1 just to bully OKW. I remember argueing with Mr. Smith 3-4 years back against this oppressive unit to remove it and Mr. Smith's reasoning for the garbage design of bullying OKW was "the unit needs to do something". We don't need another jesus vehicle that does everything like the WC51 which continues to break 1v1. Not because of it does everything lategame, but because it's oppressive early game. If the m3a1 receives buffs OKW should get fausts from the go like OST. Kubels, UCs, m3a1 from minute 1 are all garbage design. Encouraging buffs to non bleed units is just removing cover combat of the first 5 or so minutes of the game to pushing units from cover because of pathing.
It sounds like your complaint is against OKW not having an answer (aside from a mine or their t0 at gun) not the car scaling. You seem to be mixing them up and arguing one on account of the other. When tmyoy decide what you are arguing hit me up and we will resume discussing it. What ever that it happens to be |
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So then you run into the issue where a Panther loses up close to an E8 and loses at range to a Jackson so you basically can not use any armour if the enemy fields both an E8 and a Jackson. so gg? |
Why are people so adamant on giving vehicles that you get at minute 1 5 different abilities. Is the scout car not oppressive enough vs no faust OKW? Seriously taking zero loses eary game while you bleed your opponent is already OP. I think the 223 should be able to call in schwer gustav shells at vet 5.
Now now you are better than that hyperbole. I think the idea is that should you manage to keep our around or should proved you SOMETHING. Look at other early arriving shock units: ass grens now get a 6th man to help them deal with increased enemy DPS later on. Ass engies get mines and what not to keep them providing. Ostroppen get an lmg to centralize DPS. The 221 gets the 223 upgrade that turns it into a cache AND map hax. The kuble gets shared vet and map hax. The wc51 gets arty, mark target AMD can reuse the crew in another vehicle if it survives. The 222 gets great scouting vet. The 251 gets mines.... The m3a1 gets shock? In a game based around unit preservation a unit shouldn't have a "shelf life". Sure it can lose its ability to operate on the front but it should still bring something to the table if it survives. I think that's all people want (if we discount the katy/ml-20 barrage, fear propaganda, b4 direct fire off map crowd. Which we should.... |
Obers are pretty singular use too? They can only engage with infantry. Booby trap on obers = smoke on shocks. They both get something.
Fragible grenade? shock body armor. Just because a unit is different doesn't mean it needs to be OP.
Calling obers a generalist is stretching their description to the absolute maximum....
And again, is there really a reason their grenade needs to obliterate damaged models all the way out to the full blast radius of the grenade? Does it truely help them win 1v1 situations more, considering they do not lose to probably any axis squad in the game from equal cover?
I didn't say that obers were generalist just that there is more flexibility. They can and often will engage on a fringe while shocks are balls in for any assault. The cheaper grenade is baked in to their cost as it's pivotal to their role. They do have armour but they do not have centralized DPS so model losses hurt. They pay in mp as a well as munitions just getting into position for the nade.
Additionally if they beat any axis squad in close range (ahem as they should) what difference does it make if they toss another 30 mu into the fight? The entire "thing" for shocks is if they get in close... Well, don't let them. They have no flexibility at all so they excel at their singularity |
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I'd like to reiterate: shocks are a singular purpose unit whose only job is to brute force through the enemy head on and kill shit in close range. This is very different than firing lmgs on the move or am bushing armour all from the same unit. Have a slightly cheaper grenade comes with being a singular purpose unit as specialists are ALWAYS more cost effective at their given role than flexible generalist units.
Obers for example can at least lay traps or punish units trying to close when they have vet and can when the time comes fire their lmg on the move. |
Just add ability to lay mines like M20 have. Regular TM-35 (or light AT and AI mines). When T4 is deployed, ability to call smoke strike, similar to USF. Really SU don't have any off-map smokes and even their elite units have very restricted access to smoke.
Not a fan of this. Do it all support is kinda awkward. If the su76 gets smoke then that and the mortar are sufficient. Similarly soviet can afford enough pios that mines are not an issue. It makes it too cookie cutter. It's combat power is enough early game that it doesn't need infinite late game resources. Just something to reward keeping around or possibly rebuilding. |
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Just let it toss down a single med kit after t3 is built like the German cars can. Boom. Suddenly might be worth it to not have to drag your AT gun back to base for your only healing. |
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