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CoH2 Summer 2021 Balance Patch - BETA

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16 Aug 2021, 15:45 PM
#121
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1443

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2021, 13:32 PMEsxile
Dual Scott so OP... oh wait!

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/p5cmpq/i_think_i_have_found_my_passion/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


That is next level noob play. Oh look, I have a massive noob blob and I hear a stuka. They must be targeting my solo RE in the corner of the map!
16 Aug 2021, 16:03 PM
#122
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3459 | Subs: 1



That is next level noob play. Oh look, I have a massive noob blob and I hear a stuka. They must be targeting my solo RE in the corner of the map!


One squad or 10 isn't the question, we have 3 Scott valiantly trying to kill an HMG that's not moving with their barrage and a stuka that just wipe what its target, blob, squad or wathever in one click.
16 Aug 2021, 16:13 PM
#123
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2021, 16:03 PMEsxile


One squad or 10 isn't the question, we have 3 Scott valiantly trying to kill an HMG that's not moving with their barrage and a stuka that just wipe what its target, blob, squad or wathever in one click.


If it was katy\cali\landmatters shooting from the simular range, against simular axis blober who would stay under it like this USF guy, you would be surpriced to see that the results would have been identical.

Also why are you comparing results of a mortar like unit to a rocket arty to begin with?
16 Aug 2021, 16:34 PM
#124
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3459 | Subs: 1



If it was katy\cali\landmatters shooting from the simular range, against simular axis blober who would stay under it like this USF guy, you would be surpriced to see that the results would have been identical.

Also why are you comparing results of a mortar like unit to a rocket arty to begin with?


What you fail to understand is that the problem isn't the stuka but the 3 Scott that don't do their job even at close range.
16 Aug 2021, 16:39 PM
#125
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2021, 16:34 PMEsxile


What you fail to understand is that the problem isn't the stuka but the 3 Scott that don't do their job even at close range.


And in your world they should insta wipe or what? They 2-shotted MG, guy didnt retreat it after fist hit, but most likely even if he did, it would have been killed anyway.

What is your point? You want scotts to go back to their "press U and kill everything by AOE" type of unit?
16 Aug 2021, 16:54 PM
#126
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1443

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2021, 16:03 PMEsxile


One squad or 10 isn't the question, we have 3 Scott valiantly trying to kill an HMG that's not moving with their barrage and a stuka that just wipe what its target, blob, squad or wathever in one click.


So? While I agree that scott is downright useless in teamgames except for firing smoke (it fires a lot of smoke), using 3 scotts to kill a HMG is overkill, One is enough and one squad with BARS from that blob can easily gun down the damaged HMG. Heck, an hour ago I dodged 14 stuka strikes against me on beachside Across the Rheine. I wonder if the enemy though that the Stuka is useless.
16 Aug 2021, 17:01 PM
#127
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3459 | Subs: 1



So? While I agree that scott is downright useless in teamgames except for firing smoke (it fires a lot of smoke), using 3 scotts to kill a HMG is overkill, One is enough and one squad with BARS from that blob can easily gun down the damaged HMG. Heck, an hour ago I dodged 14 stuka strikes against me on beachside Across the Rheine. I wonder if the enemy though that the Stuka is useless.


They didn't kill it, the blob did after the HMG retreat, Scott is supposedly the unit to counter team weapons with its barrage but yet even 3 of them a close range can't put an HMG to less than 50% in what is equivalent of 1 barrage fired by 3 Scott in one salvo.
16 Aug 2021, 17:16 PM
#128
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Anyone test the new AVRE? its consistent... which may be problematic. With the ST nerf, until Vet 4 its the same as an AVRE. Both will be crazy toxic. I suggest make their range 30, NOT 35. They need to be a big scary threat, not actual wipe machines as shown by Tightrope. Both were rare, but seen when they had effectively 30 range due to projectile speed.

On another note, it looks like the B-4 turned out to not actually be a game-breaking issue, just really unpleasant to play against, like all shock artillery. It might be worth decreasing CD on Direct Fire while making the base Barrage CD change. DF is still iffy at 400 dmg due to CD. It was deadly when it did 50+% more. Might I suggest a 30 second DF cd? This would make DF do technically more AT DPS than before, but as it does not one shot the vehicle has time to react. It'd be cool to use DF for actual AT work.
16 Aug 2021, 17:20 PM
#129
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1443

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2021, 17:01 PMEsxile


They didn't kill it, the blob did after the HMG retreat, Scott is supposedly the unit to counter team weapons with its barrage but yet even 3 of them a close range can't put an HMG to less than 50% in what is equivalent of 1 barrage fired by 3 Scott in one salvo.


Well, yeah. I mean Scott has got a low AOE profile and is only good vs nothing. Same with pak howi. At least pak howi has vet2/1 HEAT/WP shells which are quite nice but still won't wipe a super clumped up squad in yellow cover (last round a heat shell landed on 2x volks squad super clumped up in a crater and did about 50% dmg, 0 model drops). Did the balance team overnerf them? Sure, but they are better than nothing. If I get a scott in teamgames, it's to dispense smoke and deny super heavies easy shots. I don't really use the scott for some 50 range autofire or barrage just so it can die to dual raketen. Neither do I use it for barraging teamweapons because they won't really do much dmg on average. That should change a bit in the next patch because the formations are getting reworked, so the HMG team models will be closer together.
I don't know what you expect from the Scott? To wipe static team weapons in 6 shots? That would make the balance team screech from OPness.


Anyone test the new AVRE? its consistent... which may be problematic. With the ST nerf, until Vet 4 its the same as an AVRE. Both will be crazy toxic. I suggest make their range 30, NOT 35. They need to be a big scary threat, not actual wipe machines as shown by Tightrope. Both were rare, but seen when they had effectively 30 range due to projectile speed.

On another note, it looks like the B-4 turned out to not actually be a game-breaking issue, just really unpleasant to play against, like all shock artillery. It might be worth decreasing CD on Direct Fire while making the base Barrage CD change. DF is still iffy at 400 dmg due to CD. It was deadly when it did 50+% more. Might I suggest a 30 second DF cd? This would make DF do technically more AT DPS than before, but as it does not one shot the vehicle has time to react. It'd be cool to use DF for actual AT work.


Yeah. I think both AVRE and ST should have 30 range extended to 35 through vet2 or 3 and that's it. Sight 35 at all veterancies. Veterancies should buff survivability, mobility, maybe reload a bit. Nade throws and stuff like that and that's it. Also increase delay time on both AVRE and ST. Both should fire after approx 4 seconds, not ~3s.
Both ST and AVRE should be immobile while reloading.
Those should be additional changes IMHO to the current ones.
16 Aug 2021, 17:42 PM
#130
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486


I don't know what you expect from the Scott? To wipe static team weapons in 6 shots? That would make the balance team screech from OPness.


That's why everyone plays Urban Assault, because the Calliope actually DOES do that.

Also, the barrage vs the Autoattack has massively different accuracy characteristics, so the Pack Howi 3 shots most HMGS with barrage. Its just the AA is garbage and as such its blob punishment is irrelevant.

As long as Allied HMGs cannot reasonably suppress a blob before it runs it over, Allies need some kind of blob removal tool non-doc. USF doesn't have one, neither does UKF. That's why most USF team players go Urban Assault, as it gives that tool in the best commander with that tool. I play a LOT of UKF Land Mattress, and it has saved games vs mass blobbed infantry.

I guess the Bulldozer Sherman could have its AI cranked up enough to slaughter blobs, but it would need the survivability to not get quickly murdered in those late game situations. Still, that's a Doctrinal option.

The UKF Mortar could be buffed to the point it wins arty duels OR is very cheap and quick to move, but that would be painful to play against.
16 Aug 2021, 18:53 PM
#131
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 748

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Aug 2021, 02:18 AMmrgame2
major is far harder to kill than 222 and only need vet1 to get +15.

i think it is major boost.

in the end, ost has weak sight options late game. weakest imo

g43s give +7 sight. if you have camo on the squad, you can peep on the opponent as long as you want + OST has tons of recon in their doctrines.
17 Aug 2021, 05:32 AM
#132
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Sturmtiger become OP, lets buff AVRE using the same mechanic which made ST OP :bananadance:

I can just feel old Relic balance team vibes. CoH2 indeed corrupt souls.
Tight Rope Just showed in his testing that AVRE is objectively better than the ST. How much more of buff does it need.
17 Aug 2021, 05:36 AM
#133
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

I may be late to the party but I've been playing USF with the airborne commander and I'm a bit confused why the MG and AT gun are split up while Ostheer's Osttruppen commander have both the MG34 and PaK 40 together taking up only a single slot.

It might be apples to oranges but it seems like a bit of an oversight. I'm also frustrated that they cost munitions but that's a bit of a different discussion.

Because that way MG's and ATG can be cheaper.
17 Aug 2021, 05:38 AM
#134
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 611



That would make the balance team screech from OPness.



Yeah for some reason it seems like USF is not allowed to have anything useful. Considering that it is only 10 less fuel than Katyusha or Panzerwerfer, I wouldn't mind paying more for the M8A1 HMC if it could actually kill half as good as either of those 2 units.
17 Aug 2021, 05:56 AM
#135
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Aug 2021, 13:26 PMJacK_Qc
Great change,
wehr have access to :
-FREE LMG upgrade
-FREE Snare
-FREE grenade

FREE????
I would love to spend only 15 fuel to get lmg's by 5 mins on my grens instead of having to spend the obligatory 40 fuel for those things or have access to clown-cars for free where allies have 0 snares.
17 Aug 2021, 05:58 AM
#136
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Sturmtiger should be 700mp 200 fuel and immobile while reloading. Repair crit should not be available when reloading and it should be able to be decrewed if hit while reloading.

Current proposed nerfs are not enough.

But Tightrope showed the ARVE is objectively better.
17 Aug 2021, 06:13 AM
#137
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 957

UKF:
Every change for brits aside from the machine gun change is buffs. Brits are bad in 1s but they can hold their own in teamgames and lean on teammates. Some of the changes are ridiculous. Bolster buff, bofors buff, firefly buff, churchill buff, AVRE. If the goal is to make brits push the entire playerbase to coh3 and out of coh2 then this is a good start. Furthermore why are we giving pyro sections better camo detection? That's something OST needs against commandos instead of throwing bodies at where you think the commandos are and praying your 42 is setup in the right direction


This.

In the current state of the game, UKF is blatantly unfun to play against, while also (somehow) being unfun for many to play as, especially in team games. The core issue, at least in my view, is that UKF has about 3 good units each with 50 different roles, and this patch is just taking that further.

The list of things one infantry section can do is completely comical at this point.
  • 2x Brens
  • 2x Piats
  • Gammon Bomb Grenade
  • Mills Bomb Grenade
  • Pyrotechnics Supplies Upgrade (artillery/smoke call-in) – Blocks Medic upgrade
  • Medical Supplies Upgrade (healing) – Blocks Pyro upgrade
  • Bolster (+1 model)
  • Build Sandbags
  • Build Fuel/Muni Caches
  • Additional abilities from doctrines
  • New: Stealth detection (+15 range with pyro)
And now, on top of all that utility being available on one unit, most of it is being made even cheaper, with the bonus of making the AEC arrive earlier. This isn't the right move - IS' need to be doing less things, and those things need to be moved to other units. Then we'll see some interesting build diversity instead of 5x double-upgraded IS every game.

Make the UC the 'detection' unit, similar to OKW's Kubel, move construction to REs, remove some of those grenades or make them exclusive, make bolster an interesting choice, not an upgrade with zero downside, etc.
17 Aug 2021, 08:00 AM
#138
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

The list of things one infantry section can do is completely comical at this point.


That list is grasping. Nobody in their right mind would equip them with PIATs. Any infantry can benefit from commander buffs, for all factions, there is nothing (anymore) that specifically or permanently buffs IS. Yes they can build caches, but nobody wants to sacrifice the valuable time of their mainline infantry for that. They're also lacking one of the most important abilities of a mainline infantry, which is a snare.

I'm not a fan of buffing the side tech costs either, but to state that IS have a "comically" long list of utility is simply false. Compared to other mainlines such as Volks, and with the fact in mind that they are more integral to the faction than most other mainlines, it is not that special.


Make the UC the 'detection' unit, similar to OKW's Kubel, move construction to REs,

The UC already has stealth detection, but against 18 range faust Grens it is simply not viable to use it in that role against snipers or camo Grens. Construction of caches has already been added to REs.

And as much as we'd like to we can not overhaul Bolster, as Relic will not allow any such major changes anymore.
17 Aug 2021, 08:14 AM
#139
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1211

i see you are trying to boost Assault officer's firepower, but a vicker K is not the best choice. If you really want to buff them that much, there are ways better route, such as a pair of thompson smgs for 60 muni, buy-able after company cp tech.

An other issue is the raid section's vicker K pack, 120mu is quite expensive for a single time payment, and they drop gun quite a lot, so i think you can make it so i can buy a single gun per time for 60 muni, and lower the drop rate to be on par with the bar.
17 Aug 2021, 09:34 AM
#140
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1239


But Tightrope showed the ARVE is objectively better.


In a vacum from static positions. The avre is strong no doubt but within their respective factions the ST imo is a stronger unit imo. The ST is picked a lot more. But then again you dont see brits used a lot and maybe its used as much percentidge wise.
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