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Capping mechanism

14 Jul 2021, 18:45 PM
#1
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

Do we know why devs decided to follow with the Coh2 capping mechanism over Coh1? I always though Coh1's were better in term of gameplay.

What's your opinion?

14 Jul 2021, 19:09 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Because CoH1 one was shit and took away control from the squad on contested point?
14 Jul 2021, 20:29 PM
#3
avatar of Budwise
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Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 19:09 PMKatitof
Because CoH1 one was shit and took away control from the squad on contested point?


And forced the player to make a strategic decision to risk the cap or defend the position, something COH2 players never understood because they could just a-move their MG's across the map and cap and lock down sectors all at the same time. All part of the "COH2 is the noob friendly version of COH1" mantra.
14 Jul 2021, 20:53 PM
#4
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

Not necessarily noob friendly but yeah adding a strategic layer and mitigating difference of power between starting units around capping engagement.
14 Jul 2021, 21:43 PM
#5
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

That they could had made the best out of both worlds.

Manual capping is faster, while staying on point is slower. Support weapons caps slower since they can't manual cap.
14 Jul 2021, 21:48 PM
#6
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

That they could had made the best out of both worlds.

Manual capping is faster, while staying on point is slower. Support weapons caps slower since they can't manual cap.


Imo its to much of complication, the game should remains simple but complex in its mechanisms
14 Jul 2021, 21:56 PM
#7
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2257 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 20:29 PMBudwise


And forced the player to make a strategic decision to risk the cap or defend the position, something COH2 players never understood because they could just a-move their MG's across the map and cap and lock down sectors all at the same time. All part of the "COH2 is the noob friendly version of COH1" mantra.


i remember the cap hopping from rifle men because of the 1,5x cap speed

and the cap reset from the jeep and the krad

lol what a BS.

14 Jul 2021, 23:59 PM
#8
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 20:29 PMBudwise

All part of the "COH2 is the noob friendly version of COH1" mantra.

Are we talking about the coh1 with US blobs of anti everything death, anti everything Panther tanks, M18 sniping models at each shot,...?
jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 20:29 PMBudwise

a-move mgs

In your dreams maybe
15 Jul 2021, 00:41 AM
#9
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 18:45 PMEsxile
Do we know why devs decided to follow with the Coh2 capping mechanism over Coh1? I always though Coh1's were better in term of gameplay.

What's your opinion?



COH2's mechanism is better but the flags look dumb and create pathing problems. I don't see why they have to have a flag.
15 Jul 2021, 00:58 AM
#10
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 217

Company of Heroes 1's capture mechanic was ridiculously exploitable. Vehicle pushing might be considered a "legitimate strat" by some but it was obnoxious and just felt bad to use or have it used against you. Iron Harvest tried Company of Heroes 1's capture mechanic and it's one of the many things that failed hard in that game.
15 Jul 2021, 01:10 AM
#11
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I never liked CoH1's capping mechanics and I'm glad they didn't bring them back.
MMX
15 Jul 2021, 04:09 AM
#12
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

That they could had made the best out of both worlds.

Manual capping is faster, while staying on point is slower. Support weapons caps slower since they can't manual cap.


i like this!

judging by the comments so far i think it's safe to conclude that both systems have their pros and cons and an amalgamation of coh1 & 2' capping mechanism could actually remedy many points of criticism. would really love to see this getting tested at least, but if for whatever reason it turns out to be "either or" i'd probably stick to coh2's capping mechanics.
15 Jul 2021, 05:13 AM
#13
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 20:29 PMBudwise


And forced the player to make a strategic decision to risk the cap or defend the position, something COH2 players never understood because they could just a-move their MG's across the map and cap and lock down sectors all at the same time. All part of the "COH2 is the noob friendly version of COH1" mantra.


This.
15 Jul 2021, 06:00 AM
#14
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

i think the capping in coh3 isnt that obvious, you cant tell whether your unit is capping. hope its just pre alpha missing the visual indicators
15 Jul 2021, 06:11 AM
#15
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2021, 06:00 AMmrgame2
i think the capping in coh3 isnt that obvious, you cant tell whether your unit is capping. hope its just pre alpha missing the visual indicators


The UI is just garbage
15 Jul 2021, 06:45 AM
#16
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793



The UI is just garbage


after my hands on, i think the ui is fine.
you can have some choice to reorder part of it.


the biggest problem is the camera/mouse panning, too laggy
15 Jul 2021, 08:01 AM
#17
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 710 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 20:29 PMBudwise


And forced the player to make a strategic decision to risk the cap or defend the position, something COH2 players never understood because they could just a-move their MG's across the map and cap and lock down sectors all at the same time. All part of the "COH2 is the noob friendly version of COH1" mantra.




1. As a general point: CoH2 top level skill has exceeded old school CoH1. Today's top CoH2 players > Symbiosis, Aimstrong, Aljaz, Sepha etc. It used to be the other way around until around 2016 but the "CoH2 is for scrubs" meme is outdated in 2021 I'm sorry.

2. A multiplayer game can't really be noob friendly by design. A game is noob friendly if the playerbase is bad at it. If a game is "easy", it's "easy" for both sides. Difficulty is 100% dependant on your opponent.

3. Both systems offer depth in their own way. You exclude the advantages of the CoH2 system and emphasize the advantages of the CoH1 system. CoH2 allows for direct counterplay to stop a crucial cap which is absolutely huge. In CoH1 you can't stop a cap unless you pin or kill the unit. So at the centre vp the late game basically becomes you cap -> I cap -> you cap -> I cap ad infinitum. In CoH2 you actually need to decisively win the engagement before you can cap which shifts the focus away from the "throw shit into the meatgrinder trying to neutralize the mid vp" type of late game.

4. If the mapmakers do a good job and don't put green cover in capping circles and sandbags don't become too abundant there will actually be trade offs similar to those in CoH1.
15 Jul 2021, 13:29 PM
#18
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 20:29 PMBudwise


And forced the player to make a strategic decision to risk the cap or defend the position, something COH2 players never understood because they could just a-move their MG's across the map and cap and lock down sectors all at the same time. All part of the "COH2 is the noob friendly version of COH1" mantra.

m8 krad/schwim pushing was thing, which was even more BS than a-moving and capping with mgs.
15 Jul 2021, 14:21 PM
#19
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 940

No I will not miss the capping exploits, one of the many things about COH 1 which forced me to uninstall it. If this means we have ppl capping under MG fire without giving a damn, for a time, it's still better than the old design.
Pip
15 Jul 2021, 14:47 PM
#20
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2021, 08:01 AMGiaA




1. As a general point: CoH2 top level skill has exceeded old school CoH1. Today's top CoH2 players > Symbiosis, Aimstrong, Aljaz, Sepha etc. It used to be the other way around until around 2016 but the "CoH2 is for scrubs" meme is outdated in 2021 I'm sorry.

2. A multiplayer game can't really be noob friendly by design. A game is noob friendly if the playerbase is bad at it. If a game is "easy", it's "easy" for both sides. Difficulty is 100% dependant on your opponent.

3. Both systems offer depth in their own way. You exclude the advantages of the CoH2 system and emphasize the advantages of the CoH1 system. CoH2 allows for direct counterplay to stop a crucial cap which is absolutely huge. In CoH1 you can't stop a cap unless you pin or kill the unit. So at the centre vp the late game basically becomes you cap -> I cap -> you cap -> I cap ad infinitum. In CoH2 you actually need to decisively win the engagement before you can cap which shifts the focus away from the "throw shit into the meatgrinder trying to neutralize the mid vp" type of late game.

4. If the mapmakers do a good job and don't put green cover in capping circles and sandbags don't become too abundant there will actually be trade offs similar to those in CoH1.


"Noob friendly" is genuinely something you can ascribe to a multiplayer game. I'd say that a game with a low skill ceiling is pretty "noob friendly". The skill floor is somewhat less important, actually.

If the game can be played optimally with little effort then terrible players and good players are basically indistinguishable, which is definitely what i'd call "noob friendly".


Arent the descriptions you're giving of capping CoH1 and 2 the reverse of what you're stating? Surely your unit having to put itself at extreme risk to capture a point (by entering an animation/becoming vulnerable/unable to retaliate to attack) makes clearing an area vital before capping can occur?
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