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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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12 Apr 2021, 23:39 PM
#321
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 167

Some interesting ideas here. Some of mine:

BLITZKREIG:
* Breakthrough Equipment
* Panzer Tactician
* Recon Overflight
* Command Panzer IV
* Stuka CAS

While this commander has skyrocketed in popularity lately, I'd like to see it diversify itself further away from Lightning War and Spearhead. Breakthrough equipment is a decent set of upgrades that this offensive minded doctrine will certainly make good use of.

FESTUNG SUPPORT:
* Mortar Halftrack
* Forward Resupply Station
* Puma
* LeFH
* Sector Artillery

There is no real reason that a faction with as many docs as Ostheer can't make 4 LeFH docs work. With the Puma and Mortar Halftrack, this doc will dramatically upgrade Ost light vehicle roster, while defensive tools and artillery round out its arsenal and give it more of a team game focus. Forward Resupply Station is actually a little awkward in this suggested doc, and I wouldn't be opposed to swapping it out.

MOBILE DEFENSE:
* Counterattack Tactics
* Panzer Tactician
* Jaeger Command Squad
* Mobile Observation Post
* Puma

I'll submit this doc as an alternative spot to put the Jaeger Command Squad instead of Storm. Command P4 is already in a metric ton of docs, so I don't feel like 1 fewer option will hurt much. I'd really like to see the balance team take a hard look at the 'fast cap' abilities. They are really weak abilities for a doctrinal point, and either need to add in some combat utility, or else you could arguably even remove the costs altogether and balance them around cooldown. If that isn't reasonable, I would have no qualms about them being replaced altogether.
13 Apr 2021, 05:38 AM
#322
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 598



There is no real reason that a faction with as many docs as Ostheer can't make 4 LeFH docs work.


Because balance team decided that only 2 docs for both Ost and Sov should have access to howis. While alright as it is, the fact that soviets have ML-20 in 2 good docs, while Ost have only 1 doc that can be usefull, while Joint Opperations are kinda overloaded support weapon garbo.

If anything LeFH should go from joiunt opperation to a different com or Joint Opperation should be remade to be on the same level as Sturm Doc
13 Apr 2021, 06:28 AM
#323
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 3017 | Subs: 2



As far as I know the sandbags profile is unique to the vehicle's hull and shape and you can't just add it to any vehicle without looking odd. The KV-1 just happened to have one of those profiles collecting dust in the files, made by Relic devs at some point but never used. All/most OKW vehicles have one too.


Yeah that's why I suggested hull down as an ability for the Fortifications doctrine for OKW.

But I didn't know about the KV1 since I basically almost never play Soviets or even if I did I go for the IS-2 exclusively.
13 Apr 2021, 09:40 AM
#324
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 827 | Subs: 1

Ost commanders Looking Pretty good so far. One of the things I would like to see:

- Stuka AT Strafe to Mobile Defense instead of Panzer Tactician
- Stuka AT Strafe removed from Jaeger Armor, replaced by AI strafe
13 Apr 2021, 10:32 AM
#325
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11806 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 09:40 AMSmartie
Ost commanders Looking Pretty good so far. One of the things I would like to see:

- Stuka AT Strafe to Mobile Defense instead of Panzer Tactician
- Stuka AT Strafe removed from Jaeger Armor, replaced by AI strafe

Imo:
German Mechanized Doctrine, Festung Support Doctrine will be contentment to obscurity

CAS/Ostrrtuppen/Defensive/Mobile will continue to see little action

Strategic reserves/Elite will see a drop in their number since the earlier CP of Tiger and the tech cost will make them less disable.

While Jaeger/Jaeger armor/Spearhead will remain some of the most popular and might even become more popular.
13 Apr 2021, 11:22 AM
#326
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 475



Because balance team decided that only 2 docs for both Ost and Sov should have access to howis. While alright as it is, the fact that soviets have ML-20 in 2 good docs, while Ost have only 1 doc that can be usefull, while Joint Opperations are kinda overloaded support weapon garbo.

If anything LeFH should go from joiunt opperation to a different com or Joint Opperation should be remade to be on the same level as Sturm Doc


Joint operations is fine, especially with the new upcoming supply stations. Also, this is the only doctrine where you can find lefh and the arty officer together, the coordinated barrage can make lefhs fire again, even during cooldown.
13 Apr 2021, 11:44 AM
#327
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 598



Joint operations is fine, especially with the new upcoming supply stations. Also, this is the only doctrine where you can find lefh and the arty officer together, the coordinated barrage can make lefhs fire again, even during cooldown.


I dont see anything being fine with it, tbh. It always was pure nooby 3v3+ commander, because you realistically wont be able to utilize PaK43 and LeFH even in semi-competitive games. You simply will end up out of pop-cap.

Also I suggest not to overestimate repair station and its impact. Its a cool ability, but its not a selling point and its not soviet HQ. Its more of a boosted Windustry countepart.

And on I side note, while having leFH fire second time with officer is a cool thing, I would prefere playing with Storm, because this one is not only usefull in every single scenario imaginable, but also can self-hard counter any enemy howi with recon+stuka.

I'il take this any day over officer and repair station, especially considering there are better comms with them.

But even if its a personal taste (but still I see absolutely no reason to pick Joint over Storm), still if you compare both LeFH commanders to both ML-20 commanders, Joint is complete lacklaster in terms of its over-all value and impact on the core army.

In fact, Storm is such a sexy doc after all the changes, I dont even know how second LeFH commander should look to be a even remotely competitive with it.
13 Apr 2021, 12:10 PM
#328
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 827 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 10:32 AMVipper

Imo:
German Mechanized Doctrine, Festung Support Doctrine will be contentment to obscurity

CAS/Ostrrtuppen/Defensive/Mobile will continue to see little action

Strategic reserves/Elite will see a drop in their number since the earlier CP of Tiger and the tech cost will make them less disable.

While Jaeger/Jaeger armor/Spearhead will remain some of the most popular and might even become more popular.


It's way too early for this kind of prediction imo. We jsut have seen the 1.1 notes;) And I don't think That SR will be played less. Yes, the Tiger Comes out earlier but a lot of players choose this commander because of the P4J, Ace is Always the cherry on cake. And the MOB was buffed. And I'm Pretty optimistic that Jaeger Armor will be picked less in the future simply because OST will have much more strong commanders.

That being said I agree that Mobile Defense / German Mechanized and Osttruppen still need some work.
13 Apr 2021, 12:13 PM
#329
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 475


I used both commanders, I would say it's map dependent. Pak43 in urban areas is quite dangerous.
Also Storm is quite expensive on the muni side, while Joint is far cheaper, allows you to place mines and bunkers everywhere. Basicly an offensive vs defenvise lefh doctrine.
13 Apr 2021, 12:38 PM
#330
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11806 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 12:10 PMSmartie


It's way too early for this kind of prediction imo. We jsut have seen the 1.1 notes;) And I don't think That SR will be played less. Yes, the Tiger Comes out earlier but a lot of players choose this commander because of the P4J, Ace is Always the cherry on cake. And the MOB was buffed. And I'm Pretty optimistic that Jaeger Armor will be picked less in the future simply because OST will have much more strong commanders.

That being said I agree that Mobile Defense / German Mechanized and Osttruppen still need some work.

I am not so sure about SR popularity rest on PzIV J, since Elite also is very popular and does not have PzIV J.

Actually Elite score better in popularity across modes although the number are close so the two commander seem to be about equal.

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 11:42 AMVipper
This is polarity (score in load out)of Ostheer across all mode:
(each commander get a score according to how popular they are in each mod the number are added and then dived by 4)

...
Elite Troops Doctrine 18
....
Strategic Reserves Doctrine 16.5
....
13 Apr 2021, 12:49 PM
#331
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 275

What do you guys think is better for the Command P4? The artillery or the mark target? Personally I think the artillery is more desirable
13 Apr 2021, 13:00 PM
#332
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 475

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 12:49 PMLewka
What do you guys think is better for the Command P4? The artillery or the mark target? Personally I think the artillery is more desirable

Same.
13 Apr 2021, 14:20 PM
#333
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8125 | Subs: 2

Mark type abilities are definitely harder to use, specially if they are limited by range.

In it's current form (without dmg modifier and range) i don't think it's too strong to have it removed.

The sole reason to choose one over the other is IF the artillery barrage ends up been too good to have or not.
13 Apr 2021, 17:12 PM
#334
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1721 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 12:49 PMLewka
What do you guys think is better for the Command P4? The artillery or the mark target? Personally I think the artillery is more desirable


I think the artillery will always be more useful overall just because a cheap-ish way to displace support weapons during all-in pushes will have a bigger impact more often than not. Though I could see Mark Target being good with mechanized where spotting scopes can allow for easier follow-up for kills.
Pip
13 Apr 2021, 17:16 PM
#335
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1294



As far as I know the sandbags profile is unique to the vehicle's hull and shape and you can't just add it to any vehicle without looking odd. The KV-1 just happened to have one of those profiles collecting dust in the files, made by Relic devs at some point but never used. All/most OKW vehicles have one too.


Oh, really?

Well, is it impossible to bodge things a little, and use sandbags intended for one vehicle on another? I should think that you could probably get away with it on Casemates at least.
13 Apr 2021, 19:28 PM
#336
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5150

The arty is extremely strong but both abilities imo are sorta underwhelming because there are already a multitude of units that can call in arty strikes and the command panzer really isnt worth being exclusive just because it can... Mark target is a much better ability design wise because it would allow "lesser" units perform better. Things like stugs and p4s would be more formidable BUT the short range sorta forces your garbage tank onto the front.

Imo the arty is a better performing choice but the mark target is a much better officer choice.

That said the unit itself still needs love. A bit of gun love if you know what I mean ;)
14 Apr 2021, 06:19 AM
#337
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1432



Because balance team decided that only 2 docs for both Ost and Sov should have access to howis. While alright as it is, the fact that soviets have ML-20 in 2 good docs, while Ost have only 1 doc that can be usefull, while Joint Opperations are kinda overloaded support weapon garbo.

If anything LeFH should go from joiunt opperation to a different com or Joint Opperation should be remade to be on the same level as Sturm Doc
M8, There are also 2 commanders with B4's. Thats 4 commanders with howis.
14 Apr 2021, 06:49 AM
#338
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11806 | Subs: 1

Soviet have:
B-4
Counterattack Tactics
Tank hunter Tactics

Ml-20
Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics
Soviet Combined Arms Army
Soviet Reserve Army
Terror Tactics

For a total of 6 commanders
14 Apr 2021, 06:54 AM
#339
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 598

Ye, for some reason I thought that soviets lost most of the ML-20 commanders aswell.

Well then this is as always, perfect excample of double standarts or really limmited vision of what changes are applied.

Pretty much Ostheer lost all LeFH commanders, except 2, one of which is mediocre at best. While soviets lost 1 ML-20 commander and one ML-20 was replaced with B-4. Seems legit.
14 Apr 2021, 07:38 AM
#340
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11806 | Subs: 1

152mm Howitzer Strike (new)

The ability scatter allot and result are very RNG. I have seen it almost take out a full health truck or do very little against it.

(wrong section)
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