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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

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14 Apr 2021, 07:42 AM
#341
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 192

I'd like if Stormtroopers had 4 G43. Give them 3 elite once and 4th G43 is Grenadier's. Currently you'd rather have g43 on PGrens, because the 4th model retains STG44 + it costs 10 munies more. Bump the price to 80 munies.
14 Apr 2021, 07:48 AM
#342
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 475

I'd like if Stormtroopers had 4 G43. Give them 3 elite once and 4th G43 is Grenadier's. Currently you'd rather have g43 on PGrens, because the 4th model retains STG44 + it costs 10 munies more. Bump the price to 80 munies.


Personally I wish that storm would get their old stg44s instead of g43s. Weaker at close range than mp40s, but better wipe potential at longer ranges when used with tactical assault.
Another idea was to give them 1x JLI G43.
One more idea, if they keep 3x G43s, to let them have the schreck upgrade too.
14 Apr 2021, 09:54 AM
#343
avatar of Tetranet

Posts: 164

Mark target is a much better ability design wise because it would allow "lesser" units perform better. Things like stugs and p4s would be more formidable BUT the short range sorta forces your garbage tank onto the front.


I agree, the point of officer units is to act as force multipliers and provide utility and Mark Target would synergize well with outgunned StuGs.
14 Apr 2021, 09:58 AM
#344
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17414 | Subs: 8

Outgunned stugs?

There is nothing in game that boasts so much AT firepower for the price point as stug.
14 Apr 2021, 11:13 AM
#345
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11806 | Subs: 1

Incendiary bombing need to be looked at. It damage seem to good (if not too good) but the abilities is still inferior to incendiary barrage maybe it has to do with the AOE/Scatter/number of shell.

The indicator also is confusing since it a line and not an area. Imo one could be changed to an area abd have the flight originate from base at higher speed and possibly reduce explosion damage making the ability more about area denial than initial damage.
14 Apr 2021, 12:40 PM
#346
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 651

I think command P4 request could change to phase2 if it need build in HQ
14 Apr 2021, 14:27 PM
#347
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5151

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 09:58 AMKatitof
Outgunned stugs?

There is nothing in game that boasts so much AT firepower for the price point as stug.

They do still struggle against heavies, which is fine of course, but mark target would synergies well with them. Stugs against churchill for example would benifit greatly and open up another avenue of viability.

Command units should be decent themselves but really shine in making other elements better with supports. Mark target really would help with that ESPECIALLY with the better designed aemour/target size debuff vs the damage increase.

Hell it would even help the CP itself possibly be able to fight off a light tank!
14 Apr 2021, 14:51 PM
#348
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2203 | Subs: 2

Regarding the Ostheer Command P4's new "mark vehicle" ability:

1. It needs a different name. While the other mark vehicle ability is for the Soviets for different prices etc, it is still be best to name different abilities differently.
2. Is it supposed to be an "allrounder"? With the target size modifier helping against smaller and the armor reduction against heavier units? Or is it more a temporarily tested ability to see if the CP4 needs something of that kind?
3. Overall it synergizes badly with the Elefant. This unit is already a top tier TD, I don't see why the AT capabilities must be enhanced if you have access to the Elefant since the benefit is marginal.



In general regarding Festung Armor and Fortified Armor:
Hull down and CP4 have similar effects: Enhance the survivability. The CP4 can also do this on the offense, but I have the feeling that I usually want to use either the CP4 OR hull down to make my tanks better. I know it also works for infantry, but regarding tanks both are usually too much.
I also feel that the Elefant and CP4 are not a great combo. The CP4 should be used with tanks/infantry that see frontline action. Yet with the Elefant I bind >20% of my forces to a backline unit that does not need a survivability buff. Elefant and CP4 together eat more than a third of my population, leaving not much pop for further tanks. Again, I know the aura works on infantry too. But if I am supposed to buy both CP4 AND Elefant, that is basically 1-2 tanks less that benefit from the aura. If I am not supposed to get them both, it is probably better to not put them into the same commander.
14 Apr 2021, 17:18 PM
#349
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1661

Nah, i like the cp4 with elefant. They help late game in defensive position to run down the vp clock. Hull down a brumbar together, it is very good defensive setup.

offensively, it is not the best, but i like this choice of plays

cp4 hull down i think has pretty good range and rof to pester AT infantry.
14 Apr 2021, 20:08 PM
#350
avatar of oootto92

Posts: 175

My 200iq suggestion for making STUG great again:

-Lower health from 640 to 480 (3 hits to kill)
-Copypasta maingun from p4 on stug with identical stats
-halve build time

The issue with stug in 1v1 is that why would anyone go for stug when you can go for p4 that can brawl and damage infantry. These changes would make it feasible to build one in 1v1. In larger teamgames stug is completely dead. There is no reason to get one as by the time you would want one the battlefield is so saturated by AT and TDs that outrange it that it is just useless. By reducing the build time and giving it ability to kill infantry rushing a stug would become a viable early game strategy in larger modes when the battlefield still isn't fully saturated with AT. Because of these changes Stug would require a health nerf down to 3 hit glasscannon status in order to balance the firepower/cost. Due to not having rotating turret and being 3 hit to kill the stug could easily be zoned out by a single AT or end up dead trying to 1v1 AT frontally like any light tank would.
15 Apr 2021, 00:10 AM
#351
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 275

I think if CP4 comes with a short ranged mark target instead of artillery, that would give it a higher need to come with armour skirts since it has low defenses and attack power besides against infantry. IMO I would prefer if it came with artillery strike. Also personally I think because it is a command tank in general that has low attack power and low defenses, it should just come with armour skirts. Especially with the removal of blitzkrieg and the smoke abilities sharing cooldowns with each other. If that makes it seem unfair make it more expensive IMO
15 Apr 2021, 02:39 AM
#352
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5151

I too think coming with the skirts would be a great bonus for the command tank
15 Apr 2021, 10:30 AM
#353
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 598

It would have been better imo if command PIV used vCoH like hull down or like KV-2 siege equivalent, becomming immobile but maybe increasing radius of aura and RoF.

Or its general power should be boosted a bit, because while it provides buffs and abilities its perfomance on its own is mediocre at best and considering it has to be in pottentual combat zones always kinda makes it a bit lacklaster.

UKF command vehicle on the other hand while being less potent mobility and ROF vise still retain full combat capabilities, so there is no reason why combat PIV cant be at least on Ostwind lvl of AI capabilities.

Also it would be really cool, if we got proper PIV with 75mm cannon as a buildable doc unit.
15 Apr 2021, 10:56 AM
#354
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11806 | Subs: 1

It would have been better imo if command PIV used vCoH like hull down or like KV-2 siege equivalent, becomming immobile but maybe increasing radius of aura and RoF.

Or its general power should be boosted a bit, because while it provides buffs and abilities its perfomance on its own is mediocre at best and considering it has to be in pottentual combat zones always kinda makes it a bit lacklaster.

UKF command vehicle on the other hand while being less potent mobility and ROF vise still retain full combat capabilities, so there is no reason why combat PIV cant be at least on Ostwind lvl of AI capabilities.

Also it would be really cool, if we got proper PIV with 75mm cannon as a buildable doc unit.

UKF command vehicles suffer a list of penalties:
-50% accuracy.
+100% weapon cooldown
-100% reload speed.

The bonus to unit are also much higher.

Having that said CPz could use lower XP , pop 10 and a changes to the gun.
15 Apr 2021, 10:59 AM
#355
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2203 | Subs: 2

It would have been better imo if command PIV used vCoH like hull down or like KV-2 siege equivalent, becomming immobile but maybe increasing radius of aura and RoF.

Or its general power should be boosted a bit, because while it provides buffs and abilities its perfomance on its own is mediocre at best and considering it has to be in pottentual combat zones always kinda makes it a bit lacklaster.

UKF command vehicle on the other hand while being less potent mobility and ROF vise still retain full combat capabilities, so there is no reason why combat PIV cant be at least on Ostwind lvl of AI capabilities.

The CP4 has the same AI capabilities as the normal P4, it just does not have much AT.
The British command vehicle ability more than halves all capabilities. Double the reload for all weapons, which approximately halves the DPS against tanks (not including the accuracy nerf). The CD, reload and accuracy modifiers lead to an about 70% nerf to all MGs at all ranges on a Cromwell. I don't know what you mean by "full combat capabilities". Alpha damage yes, but there will not be a great follow up.

I'd say the bonuses of the UKF version are also better, but overall I'd still take the CP4 over a British Cromwell version. The only thing saving that ability is that you can put it on a surviving AEC.
15 Apr 2021, 11:15 AM
#356
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 143

In theory it should be the same vs scattered models on a squad but the normal p4 can wipe squads better when they're close to each other. I even prefer its ai than a tiger.
16 Apr 2021, 07:22 AM
#357
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1432

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 09:58 AMKatitof
Outgunned stugs?

There is nothing in game that boasts so much AT firepower for the price point as stug.

The SU-76 is cheaper, has more range better fire rate and slightly less pen and about 75% damage. I'd say they are on par with each other.
16 Apr 2021, 07:49 AM
#358
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17414 | Subs: 8


The SU-76 is cheaper, has more range better fire rate and slightly less pen and about 75% damage. I'd say they are on par with each other.

Its really not.
Its fine for its costs, but range and cost is all it has, it doesn't have anywhere near the firepower of stug.
16 Apr 2021, 08:48 AM
#359
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1432

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 07:49 AMKatitof

Its really not.
Its fine for its costs, but range and cost is all it has, it doesn't have anywhere near the firepower of stug.

What do you mean by fire power???

stg dps vs t34/76 ~ 32
su76 dps vs p4 ~ 27

27/32 = 0.84
75/90 = 0.83

That seems like fire power for cost seems on par to me.
16 Apr 2021, 08:52 AM
#360
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 192


The SU-76 is cheaper, has more range better fire rate and slightly less pen and about 75% damage. I'd say they are on par with each other.

75% less damage and slightly less do not sound like a big deal, except Stug-G has enough pen to deal with stock mediums and pen TDs, SU-76 is clearly lacks in this regard, especially vs OKW. Also Su-76 kills p4 with 5 penetrating shot, Stug needs only 4 to kill 640 HP tank. If you add armor values of P4j, then SU-76 needs to fire 7 to 8 shots to kill it. On top of it SU-76 dies with 3 AT shots, Stug with 4.

Not sure if all that 10 range worth it.
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