How is that surprising to you and why it should be like that?
AGs were never, not even for a split second considered mainline replacement or allow any kind of tier skipping. They are supplemental early game shock unit that now can scale beyond mid game with the 6th man upgrade adding both durability and dps.
Answer me this, do you seriously, with a straight fact honestly believe that a 60 DPS 6 man unit with below 1 rec acc from first minute is balanced?
You're supposed to get 1 maybe 2 to supplement your opening, not replace how the faction is supposed to operate by steamrolling everything that isn't a light vehicle with them.
Agreed that Assgrens should supplement your opening. They have good synergy with mortars.
But please, please for the sake of an constructive discussion dont pretend that the current 6 men assgrens would "steamroll everything that isn't a light vehicle". Thats complete ridiculous. It just tells me that you havent tested the commander at all.
I had a game in which 2& 4 men assault tommies annihilated my assgrens + pzgrens in an engagement. If you wanna talk about op units Lend Lease Assault is the thread you should post.
I was lucky enough to find some games over the last days in which i played with and against Assgrens.
My experiences so far:
- Never skip T1: Allied light vehicles (UC, Soviet scout car, USF jeep) will completely bully you and you cant protect your MG. Skipping T1 = Self suicide
- The 5-men unit is still too weak
- The 6-men unit works and can be good with veterancy.
- Increase unit cost to 300
- Increase cooldown time
- Let the unit already start with 6 men!
I really think this change would deserve testing - even the 6 men unit is not especially fearsome.
This doctrine has no offmap ability. I kinda like the idea of Radio, but what about something to call in? Maybe the ability which gives PGs satchels and Pios better repair can be added with vehicle detection for PGs or Grens? The same ability Storm Troopers with Shreck get ;-)
So you get some kind of recon but you still have 1 slot free for some arty or support ability.
I also thought about the non existing off map abilities which are needed in team games. I would say that the infos of radio help your teammate in 2vs2 a lot but the ability is in 3vs3 or 4vs4 not so strong anymore.
If you wanna "free" 1 slot i would suggest to put the P4 into "Breakthrough equiment" - then you could add off-map arty etc.
P.S. 71 posts in this thread and all are constructive. NO Axis/Allies complaints and flame wars. Lets continue our discussion this way!
I propose a Stug E, an artillery vehicle born to support infantry assault, thematically fitting and a new unit for okw.
I like this idea a lot. A reworked sector arty would also be nice. (Would replace "offensive package")
Mod team is right in including an ability that speed up your movement. If "tactical movement" have to go "Breakthrough" could be interesting because your tanks would be more mobile and could cap.
Guys, a question:
I want "Radio" to stay in the doctrine but lets say the mod team had to replace it because of technical reasons:
What do you think about giving Wehrmacht the I.R. Halftrack as a replacement?
@mod team: There are plenty of threads about the new commanders and its hard to get an overview.
I will try to summarize and update some feedback here. I hope it helps.
Summary of Feedback: Updated! 25.3.
- People like the ability and want it to stay but if you have to replace it because of technical reasons pls give a strong recon ability back (Early Warning Flares)
- Satchel for Pzgrens should be replaced by a smoke grenade or AT satchel
- Pios should get standard satchel as part of their 30 mun upgrade
-unit should be more expensive, have less armor but have more hit points
- Replacing the PTIV with the JP4
- Sander brought up this idea which seems to be popular.
- MP cost is too high, should be reduced to 720 MP
- lower the scatter, unit needs to be more reliable against infantry
Some users suggested a big Tiger shift:
- KT replaces TigerAce in "Strategic Reserves"
- Reworked TigerAce moved to "Grand offensive"
There's no reason NOT TO change teching to begin with, and multiple threads that were proposing the "early ober jp4" like you said also IN THE VERY SAME POSTSproposed reasonable solutions that will keep tech costs identical while allowing for med hq and repair stations to be built regardless of tech choices (for example the ability to use one ht ability that cost as much as the upgrades and only set up the base for the upgrade, and can eventually become an hq by paying the tier cost).
I also want to ask a question to all those of the "there's medkits so it doesn't matter".
If there's no difference because of medkits and teamgames ost bunker why even oppose such changes to begin with ? Kinda hypocritical, we both know that anyone would rather get med hq than to use caches if he goes for med hq for obvious reasons.
This is a feedback forum for the new Wehrmacht doctrine. OKW discussions should be held in OKW specific threads.
Back to topic:
Would you support to replace the PZIV with the JP4?
You forgot wermacht has nondoctrinal panther that counters every piece of armor usf can deploy, pershing included.
Thats my point: Wehrmacht NEEDS to go T4 to stay relevant, yes, Panther can counter all us tanks but the unit is very expensive and you also need reliable AI as Ostheer. That means you have to also build Brummbaer. Because of Allied TD's and Tanks like the T34-85 there is no place for Support Armor Corps anymore.
I concede that my post is provocative but you should also keep in mind that an E8 /76mm Sherman could be stronger after a rework. And if you say that the 76mm Sherman is shit... what does that mean for the Wehrmacht PIV (cheaper and a little bit weaker than 76mm Sherman?
Weak point of USF was and should always be the Armor department. But if you look at the current 8 commanders 4 of them give you better tank options:
- Armor: Bulldozer, M10
- Cavalry: Pershing
- Mechanized: 76mm Sherman
- Rifle: E8
Now a lot of players want a better tank in the new USF commander, demanding an E8 or the 76mm Sherman. That would mean that you would get in over 50% of the US commanders better tanks than Wehrmacht can get with T3. This sounds bad imo, USF can not have the best light vehicles, superiour infantry, the best TD in the game and premium mediums in the most used commanders at the same time.
I don't think, that OST P4J gets the same Vet boni as OKW one.
And timing isn't a real issue. Just compare costs:
T1: 10 fuel
Battlephase 1: 40 fuel
T2: 20 fuel
Battlephase 2: 90 fuel
T3: 15 fuel
=> 160 fuel.
If i add your numbers for the wehrmacht tech then i come to => 175fuel. Sure that the fuel numbers are correct? If yes, P4 would arrive at the same time!
I agree that the JP4 would offer more strategic differsity but would the mod team even consider giving the JP4 to Wehrmacht? OKW players asked for a Stug in Elite Armor before the revamp process started and the mod team said that this would not be an option because both units would have the same role...