Profile of Vipper

Ostwind ans Hezter should not be built from T4 at all. They should be call-in or built from HQ.

They could have tech or CP requirement but they should require the T4 structure.

That would make them more attractive and increase diversity in builds.

so does the SU-85

Ok lets compare the JP 4 and SU-85 at vet 0
JP vs SU-84
Show Spoiler
So basically you are paying 50 mp and 5 fuel more for a unit that inferior to everything accept:

+11% mid accuracy
-12% faster reload
+64% frontal armor
+14% rear armor
5.6% target size

In other words one pays more than the price for a heavy counter, for a slightly better medium counter and a allot worse heavy counter.

because it has high armor

Pls stop coming up with BS theories as another user does. There is little correlation between a units armor and Penetration.

its rear armor is the same as every other heavy TD... this is mostly irrelevant aswell

Only it is not a heavy TD because it lack penetration. It is quite relevant because the main thing this unit has is frontal armor that over only the half front of the vehicle. Combined with low rotation and no side vision the unit can easily be flanked and lose the only advantage it actually has.

it gets cloaking and first strike as a vet bonus... that isnt "problematic"

Yes it is. I have provided the stat to prove that most TDs including SU-85 become better at their job at vet 3.

Only in the last time it was pacthed it lost the following veterancy bonuses:
+10% armour
+35% sight range
+125% damage from first strike
+125% accuracy from first strike
+125% penetration from first strike

Only to gain 20% accuracy when SU-85 get 30% accuracy at the same level.
The first strike bonus has extremely low impact, it is only probably in 4vs4 and even it has light impact since it does not change the number of shot in most cases.

the OP`s suggestion is quite good enough to give it the 3rd role...
the 2nd role is bad since the allies would have to contend with the panther AND the JP4
the 1st role it already fills quite nicely.... but is also quite a niche...

Not at price of 500/175

It already act as a counter to allied TDs but not cost efficiently since dedicated counter are usually cheaper and with less pop. There reason it does is bacsause OKW do not have a 60 range ATG.

It already act as a counter to allied meduims but not cost efficiently since dedicated counter are usually cheaper and with less pop.

Jp4 vet doesn't stop at 3 you know. If you read the post you're quoting he says vet4

and if you read my post I include vet 4.

If we are comparing the vet bonuses by themselves, then yes. But the Jagdpanzer IV has better base stats (accuracy and ROF). The vet 1 ability and the vet 2 extra hitpoints are incredibly useful, especially when fighting other TDs. A vet 4 Jagdpanzer IV has the fastest reload and the highest accuracy in the game of any vehicle IIRC. The only thing it doesn't get is extra penetration, but that is on purpose.

Are you sure about that? I am under the impression that FF with a commander has better accuracy at least from range 45.

And other TDs probably have better accuracy on the move.

In my experience "Cautious Movement" is bugged and the unit will not auto-fire many times.

HP buff is not bad but one buys Tds to counter enemy vehicles and not soak up damage.

JP4 is not bad and will win 1vs1 duel vs most TDs but it simply a not cost efficient counter to them since it cost about the same and has about the same Pop.

I agree that would an improvement and I have actually made a similar suggestion a long time ago. On the other hand the armor bonus is almost pointless on stug as you point out HP is far better.

One could try either HP or smaller target. I would also replace vet 1 ability since it is redundant.

One could try camo as a vet 1 ability:

Now this would work a bit like the soviet one. The ability would cloak the stug. Movement would break the camo but the unit would be able to rotate. Once cloaked the unit would get +5 vision +20 rotation.