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Give OKW flame nade a tech cost?

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LoopDloop
30 May 2018, 00:03 AM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post27 May 2018, 07:49 AMzarok47
I know flamenades are a problem, but you are forced to get them as a garrison clearing tool.

If that is delayed (too) much, okw can get locked-down on certain maps.

Either make the nade only throwable on garrisons (ugly fix) or just get rid of it all together and make flamethrower non-doc on sturms.

Or just give the flamenade to Sturms. It wouldn’t be overly strong as a combat tool to sturms aside from garrison clearing since cover doesn’t matter at the range where they can fight anyway so it’d be an ok fix without heaping even more onto sturms (people seem to complain they have to juggle too many roles and having flamers means no sweepers and no schrecks).
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Mittens
30 May 2018, 00:47 AM
#42
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 May 2018, 19:08 PMthedarkarmadillo

how wouldn't it? volks had the stick frag to begin with but was changed to a flame nade to make up for the leig being complete pond trash. thats not the case anymore. swapping it to stums and making volks get the flame nades with firestorm seems logical for both flavor and balance.


IMO the flame nade does more than what most people give it credit, not only does it dislodge players positions but it can also negate a push b/c it can effectively block covered potions while the STGs tear into units that simply cant get to the cover b/c flames.

Switching this to frag would mean that area denial wouldn't be a thing but would instead make them a better assault troop with high burst damage with the nade and STGs.
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ShadowLinkX37
30 May 2018, 00:53 AM
#43
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Do people not remember when OKW had model 24 frags on volks? And the faction couldn't clear garrisons for shit? Why? Because squads would just hop out of the garrison and then get back in.

So say you change it back to model 24 frags and this happens again, thats ok though because you can just clear it with the LeIG. Yes that's a wonderful way of again making OKW t2 completly unviable on a garrison map because none of the T2 units can clear worth a damn.

Then people will start bitching about LeIG spam again because it'll be the only viable way to clear garrisons.
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Firesparks
30 May 2018, 00:54 AM
#44
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 00:53 AMShadowLinkX37
Do people not remember when OKW had model 24 frags on volks? And the faction couldn't clear garrisons for shit? Why? Because squads would just hop out of the garrison and then get back in.

So say you change it back to model 24 frags and this happens again, thats ok though because you can just clear it with the LeIG. Yes that's a wonderful way of again making OKW t2 completly unviable on a garrison map because none of the T2 units can clear worth a damn.

Then people will start bitching about LeIG spam again because it'll be the only viable way to clear garrisons.


that was when the Leig was shit against garrison. They've since been buffed.


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ShadowLinkX37
30 May 2018, 00:55 AM
#45
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 00:54 AMFiresparks


that was when the Leig was shit against garrison. They've since been buffed.


Please read the entire post. I never said the leig was shit in this theoredical situation. People just won't ever use T2 anymore.
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mr.matrix300
30 May 2018, 01:03 AM
#46
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Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 00:53 AMShadowLinkX37
Do people not remember when OKW had model 24 frags on volks? And the faction couldn't clear garrisons for shit? Why? Because squads would just hop out of the garrison and then get back in.

So say you change it back to model 24 frags and this happens again, thats ok though because you can just clear it with the LeIG. Yes that's a wonderful way of again making OKW t2 completly unviable on a garrison map because none of the T2 units can clear worth a damn.

Then people will start bitching about LeIG spam again because it'll be the only viable way to clear garrisons.

Then LeIG gets nerfed and will lead to an total lack of anti garrison abilities for OKW so they change back to Flamenade :snfPeter:
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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Mittens
30 May 2018, 01:05 AM
#47
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Posts: 1276

jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 00:53 AMShadowLinkX37
Do people not remember when OKW had model 24 frags on volks? And the faction couldn't clear garrisons for shit? Why? Because squads would just hop out of the garrison and then get back in.

So say you change it back to model 24 frags and this happens again, thats ok though because you can just clear it with the LeIG. Yes that's a wonderful way of again making OKW t2 completly unviable on a garrison map because none of the T2 units can clear worth a damn.

Then people will start bitching about LeIG spam again because it'll be the only viable way to clear garrisons.


TBH thats what USF goes through for the most part with their 25 fuel for tech and 30 muni per nade..... not saying that is shouldn't happen but its present in other factions I guess.
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ShadowLinkX37
30 May 2018, 01:22 AM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 01:05 AMMittens


TBH thats what USF goes through for the most part with their 25 fuel for tech and 30 muni per nade..... not saying that is shouldn't happen but its present in other factions I guess.


Did you know they added a mortar to t0 like 2 years ago? It's pretty nice.
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thedarkarmadillo
30 May 2018, 02:02 AM
#49
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 00:53 AMShadowLinkX37
Do people not remember when OKW had model 24 frags on volks? And the faction couldn't clear garrisons for shit? Why? Because squads would just hop out of the garrison and then get back in.

So say you change it back to model 24 frags and this happens again, thats ok though because you can just clear it with the LeIG. Yes that's a wonderful way of again making OKW t2 completly unviable on a garrison map because none of the T2 units can clear worth a damn.

Then people will start bitching about LeIG spam again because it'll be the only viable way to clear garrisons.

Doesn't have to be removed from the game, just moved off volks. Sturm are the PERFECT unit to have them, being in volks makes them a do it all unit but as someone else said them having the model 24 would make them more burst. No less threatening but different. The ability to deny cover is supremely powerful too powerful to be as plentiful as volks.
#stalinwept
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ShadowLinkX37
30 May 2018, 02:39 AM
#50
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 02:02 AMthedarkarmadillo

Doesn't have to be removed from the game, just moved off volks. Sturm are the PERFECT unit to have them, being in volks makes them a do it all unit but as someone else said them having the model 24 would make them more burst. No less threatening but different. The ability to deny cover is supremely powerful too powerful to be as plentiful as volks.


jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2018, 20:37 PMShadowLinkX37
Although lowering the amount of flamenades available would be good, sturms are just relied upon too much. They're supposed to sweep, repair, be AT with pschrecks, be the close quaters assualt unit, and then you want to put the garrison clear on them as well? They also have difficulty getting past vet 2 in most games and fall off once weapon upgrades come online.



Perfect in theory because they're not spammable. In practice not so much.

I'd rather just have flamethrowers for all factions and work from there.
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Esxile
30 May 2018, 06:13 AM
#51
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 00:53 AMShadowLinkX37


So say you change it back to model 24 frags and this happens again, thats ok though because you can just clear it with the LeIG. Yes that's a wonderful way of again making OKW t2 completly unviable on a garrison map because none of the T2 units can clear worth a damn.


Wrong, T2 has a certain unit call... Stuka! And yes it cleans houses and, incredible enough, usually force retreat!
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thedarkarmadillo
30 May 2018, 06:18 AM
#52
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 06:13 AMEsxile


Wrong, T2 has a certain unit call... Stuka! And yes it cleans houses and, incredible enough, usually force retreat!


Ugh you expect me to use another unit besides volks to kill infantry, clear garrisons, build cover, snare tanks and eventually ball into a death blob? That's not why we're here.
#stalinwept
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Esxile
30 May 2018, 06:22 AM
#53
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 06:18 AMthedarkarmadillo


Ugh you expect me to use another unit besides volks to kill infantry, clear garrisons, build cover, snare tanks and eventually ball into a death blob? That's not why we're here.


Yes, but I'm waiting for the fuel argument so you can't rush T3 and spam Pz4 fast enough...
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ShadowLinkX37
30 May 2018, 06:34 AM
#54
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 06:13 AMEsxile


Wrong, T2 has a certain unit call... Stuka! And yes it cleans houses and, incredible enough, usually force retreat!


Because building a stuka in 1v1 first vehicle is SO viable. Honestly if people think building a vehicle to counter garrisons is an appropriate counter for an entire tech decision people need to stop bleeding bias from every wound.
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Esxile
30 May 2018, 07:13 AM
#55
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 06:34 AMShadowLinkX37


Because building a stuka in 1v1 first vehicle is SO viable. Honestly if people think building a vehicle to counter garrisons is an appropriate counter for an entire tech decision people need to stop bleeding bias from every wound.


Why not?
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ShadowLinkX37
30 May 2018, 07:18 AM
#56
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 07:13 AMEsxile


Why not?


Because in 1v1 the first piece of armor matters a lot. A stuka doesn't do anything vs armor.
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Esxile
30 May 2018, 07:28 AM
#57
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 07:18 AMShadowLinkX37


Because in 1v1 the first piece of armor matters a lot. A stuka doesn't do anything vs armor.


What matters in 1vs1 is the wiping potential of your army and capping territory: Armor doesn't cap points.
You have racketen and Puma to counter medium armor as well.

Know with what you say, you completely make me believe flamnade have to go away, so OKW meta can evolve to something else than spam volks>fast pz4. with a variant including a HT or Luch if things go very well and you have extra fuel.
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Stug life
30 May 2018, 09:37 AM
#58
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 00:55 AMShadowLinkX37


Please read the entire post. I never said the leig was shit in this theoredical situation. People just won't ever use T2 anymore.
why not use tier 2 ? the luch does good damage in garrison and there is the stuka too
katitof-2018
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Vipper
30 May 2018, 10:04 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 09:37 AMStug life
why not use tier 2 ? the luch does good damage in garrison and there is the stuka too

Luch is bad vs garrison:
Cover Table

Light cover accuracy 0.5
Light cover damage 1
Heavy cover accuracy 0.5
Heavy cover damage 0.25
Garrison accuracy 0.5
Garrison damage 0.3
Negative accuracy 1.25
Negative damage 1.25

:)
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Stug life
30 May 2018, 10:15 AM
#60
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2018, 10:04 AMVipper

Luch is bad vs garrison:
Cover Table

Light cover accuracy 0.5
Light cover damage 1
Heavy cover accuracy 0.5
Heavy cover damage 0.25
Garrison accuracy 0.5
Garrison damage 0.3
Negative accuracy 1.25
Negative damage 1.25

but didn't they change the damage in hold (true) ? Now it should deal damage to all model inside right ?
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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