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[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

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5 Dec 2020, 17:38 PM
#361
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

I thought it was at most 15 range, but i guess it's just visually confusing at first if you look the distance within the end of the barrel and the Katyusha.


Yeah, range is calculated from somewhere around the gun mantlet, not the end of the barrel, to roughly the middle of the enemy vehicle, not the front end. Which looks like a distance of 20-25 range to me in the video.
5 Dec 2020, 17:52 PM
#362
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947



I thought it was at most 15 range, but i guess it's just visually confusing at first if you look the distance within the end of the barrel and the Katyusha.


I'm not used to guessing range but the video certainly looked like it was nearly point-blank. Sander's explanation makes sense though.

Of all the things in the patch, I think the small buff to the Panther's accuracy is one of the ones that will cause the least problem. Maps like Red Ball are going to be nearly an auto-loss as Allies if the game goes past 25 minutes. Jaeger Armor isn't getting touched, but inexplicably the ISU is. Throw in Panzerfusiliers being part of Breakthough (so that the long range TD's are firing first every time), plus the LEFH winning the arty battle versus the ML20, and finally top it off with nerfs to the Jackson and SU85 nerfs and Red Ball will be an axis-dominated shitshow.
5 Dec 2020, 18:09 PM
#363
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



Are you really comparing a statistical outlier to something that’s very common?

You can’t make decisions on balance based on one RNG roll.


?? This is literally why the Jackson had its armor lowered. Because of BS RNG rolls where the P4 would frontally bounce on it even though the Jackson had no reason to even be within 40 range of a P4. Same thing with the t34 ram criticals having really low chance to cause major engine criticals. They’re getting removed.

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2020, 09:09 AMLatch


Shit yeah, the issue of my Churchill missing and bouncing and then refusing to fire at point blank range is all to do with the fact that it was unsupported.


If you noticed the gun not actually firing then you should report it as a bug. Missing isn't a bug, at least not a blatantly obvious one possibly. I'd also recommend glide shots if you're missing at point blank and moving. I'd love for a lot of tanks to have 100% accuracy at 0 range, but that isn't in the game currently.


Everyone always does this kind of shit when a video shows them something they don't like, they completely derail the point of the video, its laughable.


So basically what you've done with my video?

Churchill video shows the churchil bouncing at point blank range, then a bug, refusing to fire but of course the point you take from it has got to do with high HP and that it "wasn't supported" (it was a dive, to kill a hetzer with a Churchill, who would have thought it wouldn't work? Much like your Panther video, shit happens hence my comparison to yours)

AT gun video shows the RNG even when you make the odds the best you possibly can, and again, shit happens, but we don't all cry about it B-)


Things like AT guns missing weapon teams happens literally all the time, it isn't unexpected to miss even at close range.
5 Dec 2020, 18:33 PM
#364
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



Jp4 and Stug are med TDs, they are not ment to face heavy targets. And as for AT mesures against meds, you either can use your own meds or AT guns. When it comes to facing anything else, panther becames better chose, because you can dive in and take a lot of punishment.

You never will be able to out-spam allies TDs with JP4, aswell as, when properly played, allied TDs have an upper hand over stugs.

Allies TDs on the other hand can effectively fight any kind of armored unit, equally effective and equally forgiving.

People mostly go for panthers, simply because they are reliable, you know if you are investing in them you wont be fucked up by rng that bad.


The rof range and pen of the jp4 vs allied td armour will allow the jp4 to out dps allied td's handely. Esp once vetted.
Allied td's them self have med hp and armour. The jp4 will trade well vs them since its fires faster.

stug and jp4 are medium td's indeed. Why should the panther also cover medium tanks? Right now the panther put both out of work. Cuz as you say its more reliable. Its turret higher pen better mobility and higher hp and armour makes it so.

And why does the panther that already puts both stug and jp4 on the side line need a buff of any kind?

Allies cant use their med vs med as effectively cuz of the armour difference.
5 Dec 2020, 18:37 PM
#365
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



The rof range and pen of the jp4 vs allied td armour will allow the jp4 to out dps allied td's handely. Esp once vetted.
Allied td's them self have med hp and armour. The jp4 will trade well vs them since its fires faster.

stug and jp4 are medium td's indeed. Why should the panther also cover medium tanks? Right now the panther put both out of work. Cuz as you say its more reliable. Its turret higher pen better mobility and higher hp and armour makes it so.

And why does the panther that already puts both stug and jp4 on the side line need a buff of any kind?

Allies cant use their med vs med as effectively cuz of the armour difference.

Watch the last tournament.
5 Dec 2020, 21:23 PM
#366
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2020, 18:37 PMVipper

Watch the last tournament.

Give a hint. doctrinal 76mm m4 with rubbish AOE does not represent 'allied mediums' well.
5 Dec 2020, 21:40 PM
#367
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515


Give a hint. doctrinal 76mm m4 with rubbish AOE does not represent 'allied mediums' well.


And it's 1v1 which is the minority of players. Mostly those that play for money or just love COH2 more than their own mother.
But even though his comparison is completely off and just plain dumb, he is right. Ally armour is good, especially in the utility section while axis has more of an escape or dive (blitz, smoke canisters, etc)
6 Dec 2020, 18:01 PM
#368
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1


And why does the panther that already puts both stug and jp4 on the side line need a buff of any kind?


Because of its hit-and-run nature, panther need to expose itself to the enemy and usually used in a agressive pushes or flanking maneuvers, it wont stay behind the lines and shot. And for hit-and-run vehicle panther misses way to often, considering you need to dodge AT guns and snares by constant movement.
6 Dec 2020, 18:05 PM
#369
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

For the Panthers, it would not be a bad idea to examine the possibility of reducing their base movement speed in order to encourage the use of their Vet1 'Blitz' ability.


It's quite fast moving right now and while the anti-RNG accuracy buff is important given its high-risk diving maneuvers, its speed could be toned down a bit to compensate and increase synergy with Blitz.
6 Dec 2020, 18:12 PM
#370
avatar of KT610

Posts: 69

why not just gives panthers nondoc smoke and reduce its overall armor so that way allied Mediums can have a fighting chance against panthers, but gives Panthers some protection against Tank destroyers
6 Dec 2020, 18:25 PM
#371
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Dec 2020, 18:12 PMKT610
why not just gives panthers nondoc smoke and reduce its overall armor so that way allied Mediums can have a fighting chance against panthers, but gives Panthers some protection against Tank destroyers

because allied mediums are not supposed to have a chance against panthers and TDs are the intended counter?
6 Dec 2020, 18:28 PM
#372
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1


because allied mediums are not supposed to have a chance against panthers

*Frontally that is
6 Dec 2020, 18:34 PM
#373
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



Because of its hit-and-run nature, panther need to expose itself to the enemy and usually used in a agressive pushes or flanking maneuvers, it wont stay behind the lines and shot. And for hit-and-run vehicle panther misses way to often, considering you need to dodge AT guns and snares by constant movement.


Its already very durable and fast for its role. Its acc is not bad by any means. Its just not as good as allied td's accuracy.
But they are either not fast have no turret and defenitly are not durable
People just need to stop panthers before it shoots. They just see that shermans and jackson hit more often on the move and forget that those have paper armor to offset that faction boon.

They just want the best of everything else. A clear and cut case of the grass is greener on the other side and i want it as well.

If it becomes more accurate eithers its durability needs to go down by no small amount or its speed/mobility.
6 Dec 2020, 18:42 PM
#374
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

remove the Mg upgrade on panther can be an option to off set further buff
6 Dec 2020, 18:44 PM
#375
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1



Its already very durable and fast for its role. Its acc is not bad by any means. Its just not as good as allied td's accuracy.
But they are either not fast have no turret and defenitly are not durable
People just need to stop panthers before it shoots. They just see that shermans and jackson hit more often on the move and forget that those have paper armor to offset that faction boon.

They just want the best of everything else. A clear and cut case of the grass is greener on the other side and i want it as well.

If it becomes more accurate eithers its durability needs to go down by no small amount or its speed/mobility.


Allied TDs have more range. You cant compare them to panther, because they can engage any axis armor frontally aside from ET\Ele\JP4 without taking any damage and exposing themselfs.

Also you are overglorifing accuracy buff, it wont make it sniper like tank, it just would make it less frustrating and more consistent to use. You wont even notice this change in the game.
6 Dec 2020, 18:49 PM
#376
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


*Frontally that is

You have failed as a player and should uninstall if you actually allowed any kind of med to hit rear of your panther without literally pushing it alone to allies base sectors.
6 Dec 2020, 18:53 PM
#377
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1


You have failed as a player and should uninstall if you actually allowed any kind of med to hit rear of your panther without literally pushing it alone to allies base sectors.


Yeah if only it was applyable to Comet\churchills\KVs aswell. Panther is not immune to allied mediums, as some ppl claim, you still have ways to play against them with meds, its not easy but at least its possible.
6 Dec 2020, 18:59 PM
#378
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947

remove the Mg upgrade on panther can be an option to off set further buff


No, if they buffed the AOE of the main gun and removed the MG, you'd have something like the Comet which was a worse balancing problem. Buffing the range of the main gun would make it too good against Allied TD's.
6 Dec 2020, 20:11 PM
#379
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



Allied TDs have more range. You cant compare them to panther, because they can engage any axis armor frontally aside from ET\Ele\JP4 without taking any damage and exposing themselfs.

Also you are overglorifing accuracy buff, it wont make it sniper like tank, it just would make it less frustrating and more consistent to use. You wont even notice this change in the game.


I am not comparing them directly. Only stating the differences. A fast durable tank needs a weakness or area its less good at. Naturaly that would be acc or low rof.

I you wont notice the acc buff why does it need to get it?
The panther is already consistent in that no med has a chance vs it. Only td's and max range and super heavies do.
6 Dec 2020, 21:18 PM
#380
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1



I am not comparing them directly. Only stating the differences. A fast durable tank needs a weakness or area its less good at. Naturaly that would be acc or low rof.

I you wont notice the acc buff why does it need to get it?
The panther is already consistent in that no med has a chance vs it. Only td's and max range and super heavies do.


Its natular weakness is its advantages, in other words the fact that it needs to be exposed to the enemy and do risky moves in order to be effective. It it was an all-rounder tank like comet, then yes.

Panther has its health pool and armor, not because "yolo german engineering", but because of the way its designed to be played.

Other TDs are ment for defensive and supportive play, if you try playing defensively with panther, you would have a dead weight on your shoulders.

And speaking of the change. Basic acc buff aimed at situations where it shouldn't really miss, considering its role in the game. Basically to lower chance of BS situations happening.

Veterancy buff is there, because all other TDs on their vet 2 get penetration buffs to imporove their area of usage, panther gets vet 2 acc buff to improve its area of usage as a hit-and-run TD.
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