All entities have the same target size of 1.
Since the Thompson does not transfer fight with officer can depend when the officer model dies.
They do get different vet bonuses thou if I remember correctly. |
I love this ability but it very dangerous to use late game with all of the long range AI. Trying to use it can be suicidal in the late game.
Increase range of the Major's Artillery Barrage at vet 3 to help the offensive Major playstyle.
Major is dirty cheap, even if lose the major one can inflict more economical damage to the opponent with a single barrage. |
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That isn't an awful idea, but we'd have to make them more thematic and not compete with Obers at range(already have JLI for that). Give them Assgrens MP40's, with an upgrade for 2 FG42's for somewhat more ranged damage. Replace the bundled grenade with the stick grenade that Pfussies have.
Yes they should not be ranged oriented if they become an infiltration unit.
Not entirely sure if they need the corrosive smoke grenade either, could be removed or replaced with regular smoke grenades(share cooldown?).
imo "Blendkörper 2H Frangible Smoke Grenade" should be closer to its real life purpose and be an antitank tank weapons. More like a timed disable snare and become available to appropriate units. |
During that 2 tier building + doctrinal units design, Penals were still irrelevant. The power level of those 2 other units was so high to compensate for the lack of versatility in tech access.
The whole point of moving out of that design was in order to nerf specific units holding the faction to be in a desirable level.
Not sure where is a misconception. The tier is still composed of 3 pseudo shock units, 2 which became more irrelevant the further the opposing factions received updates. It's "unhealthy" for the game to have snipers and clowncars been meta and the tier is composed of that.
If you want the units inside T1 to be fair, the build time and cost of the tier should never be as high as T2 and should be equiparable to OH T1. You can make Penals into PF 2.0, that would just mean people not using T1 even more.
I'm not opposed to someone proposing changes to Penals. But it's too shortsighted to implement them in isolation without taking a look at the tech + 2 other units and early/mid game transition when using them.
The misconception lies to idea that all soviet openings should be equally viable on all maps regardless of commander.
If one wants a faction where all stock option are viable in all situations than one should lower the number and power of Soviet doctrinal units and have simply add "flavor".
If one wants Soviet doctrinal to be a important one should create room for this unit by designing stock unit that do not cover everything.
For instance the design of Penals being a Semi elite AI unit with AT capability is simply bad... |
I am not 100% sure on this but I think in past tests I noticed that while flamer ground attack works with normal sightblockers, it does NOT work through smoke
There is a weird interaction with hand held flamers attack ground but not sure what it is. |
This will never be a thing because you cannot prove if the person didnt always just drop because of internet crash or because of a RL emergency as long as they dont write in chat every time.
And as Rosbone said.... even though personally I almost never drop THAT early, you shouldn't be forced to stay in a lost game due to:
- teammates who are afk since 3+ minutes already
- rank 1000+ vs rank 50 (CELO) type of games
- troll teammates
- etc.
I did not suggest one should be forced to stay for long.
Relic has decided to set surrender at 5 minutes so dropping before that should discouraged.
Alternative Relic could set the time to surrender to 1 minute and allow the vote to through even if not all player vote (AFK) |
They aren't when you have to put 160mp into tech to get them out.
Which is why, while similar, they are not equivalent to PF. PF design does a much better job overall. Both in utility, smooth scaling, AI and AT. It doesn't mean stronger, but it doesn't feel bad using or facing them.
There's also the fact that getting PF doesn't mean you lock out of getting access to an MG and an AT gun.
If Penals are "problematic" it's only because the tier is composed of them plus a sniper and a clowncar unit.
Imo that is misconception because when it comes to Soviet we went from commander depended reliance with 2 building and doctrinal units filling the gaps, to a non commander design with 3 buildings while keeping the plethora of doctrinal units and the power level of those doctrinal units and in that design some unit are simply redundant.
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Im aware of their accuracy vet but I wouldnd mind to trade some of that for more staying power.
They have THE highest received accuracy at vet 3 of any core,semi and elite infantry in the game gaining a measly 15% through vet.
I like to add, if they do trade accuracy vet for received accuracy (like PF vet), to the last man then can be more targeted to increasing their accuracy as they loose modals. Just a thought.
When calculating their received accuracy one has to take into account the bonuses from to the last man...
When they are down to 4 models their received accuracy improve to 6%.
In addition their Target size might not be great but their effective HP is not that bad compared to other unit.
Penal are badly designed but I would rather see an overhaul than just another bandaid of giving them target size bonus. |
I wouldn't mind penals following PF design. I do think penals vet should be adjusted to be the same as PF.
'To the last man' I think adds 3% accuracy to the squad per modal loss. This dosnt really do much as they drop like flies. Could be improved.
Checked 'to the last man', 4% accuracy, 2% cool-down and -3% received accuracy per modal lost. Still my opinion about it stands.
Actually PF and Penal veterancy is quite close up to vet 3
To the last man is great for prolonged fight from heavy to heavy cover contrary to what one might think originally.
Since Penal get great offensive vet bonuses one has to change the way one uses them and move them to cover later in the game. |
And you want much stronger squad which arrives later and sacrificing early game map countrol, while giving nothing in return in mid game.
Penals are too strong for early game to cost less. I would rather see them weaker early and be cheaper while being stronger in mid\late game. At least T1 would be more reliable and penals more affordable.
Yes, if Penals contiue with their current role they should follow the current P.F. design starting weaker and having weapon upgrade available to them. |