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USA September patch discussion

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9 Sep 2019, 21:12 PM
#481
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 797



I'd open the whole tier and officer could be bought then as one of the units. I'd love that ;)


Ya the officer is in the tier for purchase just like if you lose him.

my upgrade idea is mostly b/c i can't see a lot of players buying an officer in anything other than a rifle replacemnt scenario unless they have something more than BAR/Bazooka access.
Officers are better than rifles but the point is that most people don't want 4 rifles when usf has alot of other doctrinal infantry options.
9 Sep 2019, 21:17 PM
#482
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 22



Do You think it would be viable to use the new tech button to unlock the whole officer tier but not get the officer (it could be bought later from the given tier if the player wanted it but wouldn't be obligatory)?

Would this include the upgrade to access vehicles and support weapons like the pak howi? I assume you mean both Lt. and Captain, not major. I personally think it could be viable but some on the balance patch team and relic probably wouldn't want USF to change so radically.
9 Sep 2019, 21:22 PM
#483
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 598


Would this include the upgrade to access vehicles and support weapons like the pak howi? I assume you mean both Lt. and Captain, not major. I personally think it could be viable but some on the balance patch team and relic probably wouldn't want USF to change so radically.


Didn't think of major (however, if the resurce math was done right, who knows?). But I thought of cpt and Lt. I'd more or less add the cost of the second unlock and part of the officer's price and unlock the tier with the button from the last patch. I'd let players build everything from those tiers then including the officer.
9 Sep 2019, 21:24 PM
#484
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 598



Officers are better than rifles but the point is that most people don't want 4 rifles when usf has alot of other doctrinal infantry options.


That's exactly why I'd do that :)
9 Sep 2019, 21:25 PM
#485
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 444

I kinda think they should give usf additional tech like hammer and anvil. You would be able to pick an easy 8 or a priest but not both. E8 would have its pen buffed but splash nerfed. Priest would remain how it is. Jakson firerate or moving accuracy would be nerfed.
But that is just my usf fantasy.
9 Sep 2019, 21:29 PM
#486
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 444



Yes I agree, if an ostheer player is rushing 222 you do not need to stall that long unless you were unprepared. An m20 with slow skirts would not have much time to harass freely, but it is still quite useful all game long.

Probably the most difficult thing is that you need to have BP1 researched and t2 built or you will have difficulty reacting to a fast m20 even with ample resources so you must plan for an m20 regardless of whether or not it comes. #metagameproblems


Well, if you are unprepared for a flame ht you will get messed up worse. M20 dmg is low to units sitting in cover, so you can kinda stall out easier. Skipping tier 2 should be risky.
9 Sep 2019, 21:32 PM
#487
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 797


Would this include the upgrade to access vehicles and support weapons like the pak howi? I assume you mean both Lt. and Captain, not major. I personally think it could be viable but some on the balance patch team and relic probably wouldn't want USF to change so radically.


I think There is a direct conflict between keeping some of the cool mechanics like
"free officer, Free Bar" and creating balanced and diverse gameplay.

Similar conflict occurred when OKW got full resources at the expense of neutering vet 5 and increased manpower costs for tech.

First and foremost it is important that the game is fun and the factions are different. But as we get to the later phase of the game lifecycle, I think most experienced players would appreciate the latter balanced and diverse gameplay as we already think the game is cool and exciting :romeoPro:

Edit: I don't necessarily think cool and balanced/diverse are mutually exclusive, but i think the relic balance team never really got far enough into meta problems *see soviets spamming units from 1 tier from day 1 to day now* or fundamental problems *OKW had no anti garrison for like 2 years* to develop top tier faction and teching designs
9 Sep 2019, 21:40 PM
#488
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 444



I think There is a direct conflict between keeping some of the cool mechanics like
"free officer, Free Bar" and creating balanced and diverse gameplay.

Similar conflict occurred when OKW got full resources at the expense of neutering vet 5 and increased manpower costs for tech.

First and foremost it is important that the game is fun and the factions are different. But as we get to the later phase of the game lifecycle, I think most experienced players would appreciate the latter balanced and diverse gameplay as we already think the game is cool and exciting :romeoPro:


The funniest part is having 4 majors in one battle from an all usf team. Something Major is going on there:D
10 Sep 2019, 04:09 AM
#489
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4485

I kinda think they should give usf additional tech like hammer and anvil. You would be able to pick an easy 8 or a priest but not both. E8 would have its pen buffed but splash nerfed. Priest would remain how it is. Jakson firerate or moving accuracy would be nerfed.
But that is just my usf fantasy.


Maybe just make it the Sherman 76mm, Easy Eight should remain doctrine locked, otherwise why would you ever go for the 76mm Sherman if you could get the superior Easy Eight stock?
10 Sep 2019, 06:44 AM
#490
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 484 | Subs: 1



I think if the opportunity presented itself the best possible rework for USF would include that.
Officers are not free
Officers have unique upgrades (LT thompsons CPT lmgs)

Outside of the rifles only t0 and officers are also rifles problem usf is in a very good spot though.


Above quote is reduced for clarity....
Below is copied from myself in an earlier thread about redoing USF officers. Redo the officers as below allows for more specific roles for officers and is also more historically correct roles too. In this case history and gameplay are not at odds and it really can be a win-win. However, theses specialty squads should still not be “free” as that does not relieve the problem of USF being forced into having too many infantry squads if they tech. USF tech should be more like British Tech where you unlock the tier and then unlock the Mechanized Platoon/Company separately. So you would need either a Mechanized Platoon or Company Command post unlocked or both regular Platoon and Company Command Posts unlocked before teching to Major, as is now. Change nothing about Major tech and reduce the cost of teching to the platoon and company level slightly to take into account that you no longer get a free squad, but not too much otherwise you’ll end up with very fast Shermans. Not sure on the exact numbers but thats up for discussion.


I’ve been doing a study on WWII infantry tables of organization and equipment for the US, British and German forces. Real US infantry platoons had one sniper rifle that was unallocated to a specific man and kept as part of the Platoon Headquarters section with the Lieutenant. Additionally, there were no Thompsons at the platoon level and the Lieutenant himself would’ve had an M1 carbine.

At the Company level, the Captain has access to six unallocated Thompsons, six unallocated BARs and five unallocated Bazookas. He would also have been armed with an M1 carbine as would several other members of the Company Headquarters element unlike the Platoon HQ which would’ve all had M1 Garand rifles. Additionally, support elements in the weapons platoon of the company had M1919A4 or M1919A6 Machineguns and would be dispatched at the discrediting of the company commander (the Captain).

Considering all of that, here is how I would rework the USF officers.

Lieutenant: 5 man squad with 3 M1 Garands on Riflemen models, 1 M1 paratrooper carbine on the Lieutenant himself and 1 M1C sniper rifle on a Rifleman model. The squad has better vision than a regular Riflemen squad and has access to regular grenades and smoke grenades when teched and starts with an AT rifle grenade shot at Vet 0. No upgrades are available but can still take up to two weapons from the weapon racks. No changes to abilities or veterancy. This unit functions like a superior rifleman squad that can snipe at long range like a pathfinder squad, but with only one sniper rifle. It would also have less overlap with dedicated SMG units like Rangers and Paratroopers.

Captain: 5 man squad with 2 Riflemen models with M1 Garands, 1 Captain model with a Paratrooper stat M1 Carbine and 2 Rear Echelon models with the weaker Rear Echelon M1 Carbines. Abilities stay the same but has two mutually exclusive upgrade options. An M1919A6 upgrade for 70 munitions where one of the Rear Echelon models gains the LMG making the squad a dedicated long range squad that is good at supporting against infantry and a double bazooka upgrade for 100 munitions that gives the two Riflemen the Bazookas making the squad a good bazooka support squad but has almost no anti infantry ability. Squad abilities and veterancy remains the same. The squad can still upgrade with weapons from the weapon racks and still gains smoke grenades from the grenade tech.

10 Sep 2019, 17:10 PM
#491
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1886 | Subs: 3

check your reddit post history.

https://www.reddit.com/user/Sandert93/


Would you mind showing me in which posts exactly I "have sworn up and down every pro player that has tested the patch has said USF is OP." ?
well balance team (Sanders mostly) has sworn up and down every pro player that has tested the patch has said USF is OP. I guess you just don't know what you're talking about Von.


Because funnily enough, I can't find myself saying anything like that at all.
10 Sep 2019, 17:12 PM
#492
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891


https://www.reddit.com/user/Sandert93/


Would you mind showing me in which posts exactly "I have sworn up and down every pro player that has tested the patch has said USF is OP."?


Because funnily enough, I can't find myself saying anything like that at all.
he is prob referring to what Andy posted
10 Sep 2019, 17:20 PM
#493
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1632

snip

I read along your post and now im trying to summarize it up.
Lt gets 2 weapons for free (but what if weapon racks is not unlocked?) and becomes a half pathfinder/half riflemen squad.

Cpt becomes a half para/half RET. With two mutually exclusive weapon upgrades, one of them is doctrinal and the other is double zooks.

People going for Cpt dont need to unlock racks. because 2 zooks is enough, people going for LT must unlock them to get the free weapons.

Dont get me wrong its a interesting concept, but it has some flaws.
10 Sep 2019, 18:35 PM
#494
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 143


https://www.reddit.com/user/Sandert93/


Would you mind showing me in which posts exactly I "have sworn up and down every pro player that has tested the patch has said USF is OP." ?


Because funnily enough, I can't find myself saying anything like that at all.


Yeah Stug is right(wtf did I just say that), it was Andy's comment in the shoutbox after 1.2 or 1.1 preview was announced.
10 Sep 2019, 18:45 PM
#495
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4802 | Subs: 14

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