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September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

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23 Aug 2019, 23:53 PM
#421
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3968

Well then tell it to the people complaining that puppchen is op right now
23 Aug 2019, 23:58 PM
#422
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 816

Well then tell it to the people complaining that puppchen is op right now


It's weaker than other at guns, unless you spam it and sneak up on tanks. So normal use worse, Spam it and you can kill tanks without any combined arms, this is not good design and I hope the goal is to end this dynamic, while ultimately making it easier to use in a balanced army.
24 Aug 2019, 00:00 AM
#423
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3968



It's weaker than other at guns, unless you spam it and sneak up on tanks. So normal use worse, Spam it and you can kill tanks without any combined arms, this is not good design and I hope the goal is to end this dynamic, while ultimately making it easier to use in a balanced army.
by right now I mean the patch 1.2 people are saying it’s still op cause it can retreat and has stationary cloak at vet 1
24 Aug 2019, 00:55 AM
#424
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1518

by right now I mean the patch 1.2 people are saying it’s still op cause it can retreat and has stationary cloak at vet 1


I'm just saying AT guns shouldn't retreat. If the Rak isn't good enough without retreat, change it further. But AT guns shouldn't retreat
24 Aug 2019, 05:54 AM
#425
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



I'm just saying AT guns shouldn't retreat. If the Rak isn't good enough without retreat, change it further. But AT guns shouldn't retreat


You are right, at guns shouldn't retreat. Live version of rak isn't an at gun, it is just a shitty cheese cloak gimmick. Good at cheese, horrible at being dedicated at gun. The way they changed it now, basically butchered it out of use lol. Giving it's retreat back is their way of admitting they don't know how to fix it. Who knows? I certainly don't. It's design is so seriously flawed, that you almost have to replace it with a pak 40 or something.
24 Aug 2019, 07:02 AM
#426
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 816

So this patch is now the Summer patch Preview in the Steam workshop and in game, its a bit confusing

SummerPatchPreview
24 Aug 2019, 07:14 AM
#427
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2609 | Subs: 1

atcaully if it comes after the first truck call in (not set up) it will still come around the same time as clown car

tier + clown car = need to wait 5 fuel

truck = need to wait 5 fuel

just

clone the usf at gun


remove the pen round ability

add current preview cloak and first strike bonus to give it 50% more accuracy and pen for the first shoot

tada it's unique now and perfect counter to early LV and LT thanks to bonus accuracy for the first shoot

adjust the vet accordingly


Your vision of the game is clusterfucked by your obsession of math. Raketen coming after first truck has more implication than counting own much fuel it cost.
OKW is starting with 300 manpower with the v1.2, that's -40 manpower which will delay the 3rd volks much more significantly but also the first truck. Versus an early M3, if the rak is locked behind the truck you are fucked because you'll be unable to hold territory until the truck and then the rak are built.
The only way for the OKW player to get the rak in time is to build the truck as 3rd unit which leave you with 1 SP and 2 volks, pretty much a suicide in term of territory holding anyway.

The only way to make rak after truck working is giving volks pfaust native again which would get us back into volks spam as hard counter to anything.

So in my opinion, just forget about your wet dreams of M1 clone for OKW, that's not viable for the faction.

What probably need OKW is a less cheesy Jpz4 for mid game to counter medium tanks by reducing its fuel price and its super cheesy abilities: Camo, super low target size and health boost to heaven level. Make it solid like the stug but with better range, keep the target size low but not so much for 110/120 fuel.
24 Aug 2019, 08:01 AM
#428
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 340

i really like that radio silence gets some extra benefits. i think all abilities with same functioning should gets such. Like breaktrough tactics could get small increase in rate of fire and such.
24 Aug 2019, 11:18 AM
#429
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6384 | Subs: 1

Game wide changes for all factions

Heavy call-in tank changes for all factions



One of the issues with Super heavy tank is that they can instantly be replaced when lost in large MODs imo. Imo that can be fixed with the a cool-down that start after the unit is lost.

In addition Super heavy tanks now seem to come earlier messing the timing and competing with doctrinal premium mediums tanks forcing more use of heavy TDs and making the window of opportunity even smaller for mediums tanks. Imo a simpler solution would be to keep the time frame the same as now (or reduce cp by 1-2) and lower fuel cost instead.

Finally the extra fuel cost for heavy TDs combined with the high will completely remove them from 1v1 and 2v2 mods. One could consider offering a discount for every tech building built/researched.

Medics



Did not have time to test this thoroughly but they seem as solid changes. Maybe one could increase the range of heal to help with bug that make medic stuck in trying to heal an entity?

Imo one should also be able to set a retreat with in the base sector. This could greatly help USF to protect their ambulance better.
24 Aug 2019, 12:02 PM
#430
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1954 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 11:18 AMVipper
One of the issues with Super heavy tank is that they can instantly be replaced when lost in large MODs imo. Imo that can be fixed with the a cool-down that start after the unit is lost.


We wanted to change that, but it seems to be impossible to let cooldowns start upon a unit's destruction.
24 Aug 2019, 12:06 PM
#431
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 348

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Aug 2019, 11:45 AMgbem


airborne doesnt heal... it just allows reinforce...

the real doctrinal soviet healing options are

1. commissar
2. urban defense bases

but of course all factions must be measured irrespective of doctrines... doctrines are there to add flavor not viability...

of course some say the lack of mass healing is the soviet`s "weaknesses".... if that is the case then i want the grenadier buffs to be reverted so that wehrmacht retains its "weakness" of squishy squads...


100% agreed.
24 Aug 2019, 12:13 PM
#432
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6384 | Subs: 1



We wanted to change that, but it seems to be impossible to let cooldowns start upon a unit's destruction.

Thanks for the clarification, maybe have the CD before the unit appears then? Maybe 1-2 minute delay before the unit appear when called in?
24 Aug 2019, 12:29 PM
#433
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 348



What do vehicles have to do with 4 model mainline non doc infantry squads getting wiped too easily? You want to argue that a T70 is weak lol? Or a Su76 is weak and does not perform well vs Ostheer tier 3 units? You want to argue that the Su85 is bad?


He claimed ost looses lots of squads unjustly to he rounds. So i countered soviet lower armoured vehicles always get unjustly penned by specilized at.
24 Aug 2019, 12:56 PM
#434
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3968



He claimed ost looses lots of squads unjustly to he rounds. So i countered soviet lower armoured vehicles always get unjustly penned by specilized at.
no, soviet get armor like all other factions, if u mean t 34 76 it cost 30 less fuel than a p 4, did u seriously expect it to have the same armor ?
24 Aug 2019, 14:44 PM
#435
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1518



We wanted to change that, but it seems to be impossible to let cooldowns start upon a unit's destruction.


Can you just add a build timer?
WeX
24 Aug 2019, 15:41 PM
#436
avatar of WeX

Posts: 25

Since this patch is overhauling everything, can we look at the USA base? So many maps, like crossroads, add an unnecessary micro burden for USF since the size of the base prevents retreating squads to even end up in the same place i.e. then you have to move them to the healing of the ambulance.
24 Aug 2019, 15:43 PM
#437
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 15:41 PMWeX
Since this patch is overhauling everything, can we look at the USA base? So many maps, like crossroads, add an unnecessary micro burden for USF since the size of the base prevents retreating squads to even end up in the same place i.e. then you have to move them to the healing of the ambulance.


Balance team, add that modded USF base. :hansGASM:
ddd
24 Aug 2019, 15:51 PM
#438
avatar of ddd

Posts: 520 | Subs: 1

Cant add proper base for USF according to balance team. Sander93 explained in other thread that normal base layout for USF would be too unbalanced. You could hide your ambulance and prevent it from being easily one shot after all.
24 Aug 2019, 16:17 PM
#439
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2609 | Subs: 1

Ahaha yes, he also say the ambulance one shot mechanism is impossible to solve, game engine forbid the ambulance to have more HP or faster acceleration. :clap:
24 Aug 2019, 17:16 PM
#440
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 348

no, soviet get armor like all other factions, if u mean t 34 76 it cost 30 less fuel than a p 4, did u seriously expect it to have the same armor ?


No dude your are deliberatly trying to spin my post. Where did i say that 30 less fuel should equal in preformance? Not ever!

He was caliming ost 4 men squads unjustly suffer at he rounds and and explosives. I made the case for ost having lower hp squads but better armour to balance it out. And sov having lower armour values but higher hp inf as designd by relic.

Now i cant wait what you try to spin this into.
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