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September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

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24 Aug 2019, 17:20 PM
#441
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 15:51 PMddd
Cant add proper base for USF according to balance team. Sander93 explained in other thread that normal base layout for USF would be too unbalanced. You could hide your ambulance and prevent it from being easily one shot after all.

Please don't spread misinformation. I never said it would never be balanced, I gave feedback on how I thought that with the layout and retreat points at that time it would be unbalanced compared to other factions, and the modder looked into fixing that based on that feedback. I never said anything about being able to hide your ambulance:


Where do units retreat to? The truck in the middle? That would make it pretty unfair compared to other bases because retreating infantry would be much more protected against dives by all the tents and weapon racks around it.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/93337/usf-base-reorganization-mod/post/758063

Same thing as I said above. What I mean is that with this base layout, if units retreat to the truck in the middle, they are protected by structures automatically without player input. No other base in the game has this.

It's just a balance concern from me. If their retreat stopped at the outskirts of this base, like with all other bases in the game currently, then it'd be fine.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/93337/usf-base-reorganization-mod/post/758066

And the modder's reply:
I must admit that I focussed on pathing and visuals, but completely forgot about the retreat point. Would it be fair to set a retreat point on the Company Command Post?

https://www.coh2.org/topic/93337/usf-base-reorganization-mod/post/758090



jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 16:17 PMEsxile
Ahaha yes, he also say the ambulance one shot mechanism is impossible to solve, game engine forbid the ambulance to have more HP or faster acceleration. :clap:

Please don't spread misinformation. I said that it was looked into giving the Ambulance more HP only in the main base sector and that it was found to be impossible, and that we decided not to give the Ambulance more basic durability (like more health or acceleration) out of balance concerns for team games:

Giving the ambulance additional health or durability in base was looked into but didn't seem possible. Giving the ambulance increased durability itself is a hard no because a forward ambulance rush is really strong in team games and it needs to be vulnerable to balance that. It sucks that it's so easy to dive in the main base, but there doesn't seem to be a way to prevent that. At least an evacuated medics squad will now be significantly more useful, but you seem to have ignored that change.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/95399/usa-september-patch-discussion/post/767310



To be frank, I think it's quite sad how you two have taken your fanboyism down to a level of spreading blatant lies.

24 Aug 2019, 17:20 PM
#442
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971



No dude your are deliberatly trying to spin my post. Where did i say that 30 less fuel should equal in preformance? Not ever!

He was caliming ost 4 men squads unjustly suffer at he rounds and and explosives. I made the case for ost having lower hp squads but better armour to balance it out. And sov having lower armour values but higher hp inf as designd by relic.

Now i cant wait what you try to spin this into.
what u said would make sense IF osther inf was cheaper too, like SU tank are cheaper for worse armor, not cost the same for less hp
ddd
24 Aug 2019, 17:25 PM
#443
avatar of ddd

Posts: 521 | Subs: 1

You are right, you clearly said it is ok after modder made adjustements, my apologies. So when do you add it to the patch?

And about ambulance, consider adding option to permanently turning abulance into static position only available in base sector for improved durability.
24 Aug 2019, 17:31 PM
#445
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 17:25 PMddd
You are right, you clearly said it is ok after modder made adjustements, my apologies. So when do you add it to the patch?


I actually advocated to put the new USF base into the game, after intended changes to the give the Ambulance improved durability only in the main base sector proved impossible. Relic had already looked into it (together with the modder I think) however, and they deemed it too complicated to implement into the actual game.
24 Aug 2019, 17:55 PM
#446
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2609 | Subs: 1



Please don't spread misinformation. I said that it was looked into giving the Ambulance more HP only in the main base sector and that it was found to be impossible, and that we decided not to give the Ambulance more basic durability (like more health or acceleration) out of balance concerns for team games:




Yeah you're probably right. Bringing an 'experimental change' to Grenadiers to make them less subject to damage from tanks is far less of a concern about balance than giving a couple of HP more to the ambulance so it doesn't die in one shot, in base or not.
Like today USF is THE team faction, we all saw it during the last tournament and the couple of changes you brought in this patch which are in majority nerfs for the faction are going to shake the state of the team play balance so hard that anything else has to be forbidden to give breath room to other factions.

Don't you find it strange that the balance team deploy a lot of effort to reduce the wipe mechanism for some units but leave completely unattended others or even more promote it like in the case of the pakhowi?
And when you ask them if this unit could receive the same treatment their only answer is "not possible, there are no solutions".

But I'm pretty sure you'll call me fanboy as it is your single line of defense nowaday. After all ANDY did it right away when DDD lighted the lack of consistency in your decision to buff or nerf units.
24 Aug 2019, 19:10 PM
#448
avatar of SneakEye
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 495 | Subs: 3

I said that it was looked into giving the Ambulance more HP only in the main base sector and that it was found to be impossible

Have you tried to add an aura to the HQ with area_type 'sector' that targets ambulance?
25 Aug 2019, 05:33 AM
#449
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 890

Thank god for the vet3 change to grenadiers. I can't tell how many "won" games i have lost as ostheer due to my vet3 grens getting wiped left right and center from RNG explosive damage. Maybe its time to return to coh2 when this patch drops.
25 Aug 2019, 05:54 AM
#450
avatar of Joshua85
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 597



I mean the ability in mobile defense.

Relief Infantry is decent-ish, but comes so late Osttruppen will be 100% useless in combat.


Oh I highly disagree with that! Deployment of two osttruppen where one has an lmg is quite a decent addition if you suffered some early wipes and they do a good enough job for capping, crewing lost team weapons and holding down defensive positions. By no means a useless ability.

With relief infantry however, you have to be extremely lucky or well timed to get even a single osttruppen squad in the ridicilously short timespan, without suffering a wipe in return. On top of that you often have to pretty much throw your squads into a grinder to suffer losses, which is a horrible approach for units with a base reinforcement cost of 30 manpower.
25 Aug 2019, 06:58 AM
#451
avatar of SneakEye
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 495 | Subs: 3

Relic had already looked into it (together with the modder I think) however, and they deemed it too complicated to implement into the actual game.

I was not involved, but that doesn't matter. My solution is indeed quite complicated and not main game worthy, but I was hoping that the main game could use SCAR to make it easier. I am glad that they tried at least :)
25 Aug 2019, 10:19 AM
#452
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1



Oh I highly disagree with that! Deployment of two osttruppen where one has an lmg is quite a decent addition if you suffered some early wipes and they do a good enough job for capping, crewing lost team weapons and holding down defensive positions. By no means a useless ability.



if an LMG was guaranteed it would be a decent ability, but the chance is 20% for each to get an LMG.

More often than not none of them get an LMG, so you're stuck with two lackluster squads that struggle hard against vetted or elite infantry and won't help you much against the (coming) light vehicles, considering their 3 CP arrival.
25 Aug 2019, 17:36 PM
#453
avatar of mstcrstn

Posts: 23

Testing the Comet, i think the reload bonus should be moved to vet. 2. It comes pretty late, doesn't vet very fast and has very slow reload out of the box.
Vaz
26 Aug 2019, 11:19 AM
#454
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 906




if an LMG was guaranteed it would be a decent ability, but the chance is 20% for each to get an LMG.

More often than not none of them get an LMG, so you're stuck with two lackluster squads that struggle hard against vetted or elite infantry and won't help you much against the (coming) light vehicles, considering their 3 CP arrival.


oh is that how that works? That should be increased to at least 50%. Makes them stronger and more lmg drops.
26 Aug 2019, 11:23 AM
#455
avatar of Torniks

Posts: 297

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Aug 2019, 05:33 AMspajn
Thank god for the vet3 change to grenadiers. I can't tell how many "won" games i have lost as ostheer due to my vet3 grens getting wiped left right and center from RNG explosive damage. Maybe its time to return to coh2 when this patch drops.

I feel you bro. Reading the line "with only 4 models, they get wiped too easily once heavy indirect fire and big guns start roaming the battlefield" in 2019, about five years too late, was a bittersweet moment.
26 Aug 2019, 16:33 PM
#456
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3218 | Subs: 1




Hey can we expect 1.3 before next weekends finals or will it still be on 1.2?
26 Aug 2019, 18:16 PM
#457
avatar of Joshua85
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 597




if an LMG was guaranteed it would be a decent ability, but the chance is 20% for each to get an LMG.

More often than not none of them get an LMG, so you're stuck with two lackluster squads that struggle hard against vetted or elite infantry and won't help you much against the (coming) light vehicles, considering their 3 CP arrival.


Hmm didn't know the lmg was still RNG based. I thought I read somewhere that you got one with and one without.

I still think it's quite an adequate ability tough, but they should probably reduce the price to 400 or perhaps even 380 manpower.
26 Aug 2019, 18:39 PM
#458
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1



Hmm didn't know the lmg was still RNG based. I thought I read somewhere that you got one with and one without.

I still think it's quite an adequate ability tough, but they should probably reduce the price to 400 or perhaps even 380 manpower.


Personally had the idea of a single AT Osttruppen squad at 2 CP, which would help the doctrine after Puma nerf. They'd have AT rifles.
26 Aug 2019, 19:41 PM
#459
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3218 | Subs: 1

Can we address the self spotting, zero popcap axis bunkers please? At the very least they shouldn't have 55 sight range for some bizzare reason.
26 Aug 2019, 19:44 PM
#460
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

Can we address the self spotting, zero popcap axis bunkers please? At the very least they shouldn't have 55 sight range for some bizzare reason.
they already did tho
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