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September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

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2 Sep 2019, 19:23 PM
#581
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2019, 18:36 PMRiley


Scotch, Noggano, VonAsten, Isuldur, they all chose the British and the Soviet in Final Game. The only one, VonIvan took the risk.



Also Anniversary classic tournament the USF showed the worst result - 0 wins. I repeated this many times, but people still argue with me and ignore the results of tournaments.


Last tourney USF won tho ?
2 Sep 2019, 19:24 PM
#582
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2019, 19:14 PMRiley


Usf 1vs1 fine. Problems in 2x2 mode.


Exactly!
2 Sep 2019, 19:28 PM
#583
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450



Last tourney USF won tho ?


They did but they are not some unstoppable ,op force.
2 Sep 2019, 20:29 PM
#584
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 400



Exactly!


The thing is if you buff USF 2v2 it will demolish in 1v1...
2 Sep 2019, 20:44 PM
#585
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 297

Maybe the problem in that match was VonIvan being VonIvan, not USF itself. Just saying.

There is no other player that I wanted to succeed more in tournaments than VonIvan. I am always so heartbroken to see him lose or throw the game :(


The higher the ranks go the more you see people ditching usf for Soviets and brits. This mostly has to do with usfs poor capability of dealing with elephants and brumbars.


Talking about teamgames, I think USF can actually deal with these behemoths okay because Jackson is a strong TD and it's mobility allows it to vet and survive. You don't have to destroy the elefant, it's enough if you damage it and force the repairs. You can misplace ele from VP with Priest barrage etc. It has to move and when ele moves it's vulnerable.

From 2v2 perspective, USF strikes me as micro heavy with all decrews&repairs, lots of inf and teamweapons and mobile fragile units on the frontline like Jackson/Scott that drive into each other often. Up to very recently the Calliope wasn't even functioning very well so picking SOV was giving you an advantage of non-doc rocket arty that is so crucial in 2v2+, just as the tournament showed us with Walking Stuka causing high casualties among enemies. Also ISU-152 is a very strong anti-inf unit and IS2 is a tough tank too. Brits on the other hand are just a solid faction and have good doctrines so picking them is always a good idea.
3 Sep 2019, 00:34 AM
#586
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 766

i guess a copy paste of the ost one -5 range and slightly worse near aoe but faster set up and down is bad right ?


Stop propagating this falsehood. The USF mortar currently has a longer setup and teardown time compared to the ostheer mortar (2.0 to 1.9) You also leave out the worse scatter and mid distance aoe besides the near distance one (1.5 to 2, 0.75 to 1).

Essentially, the USF mortar has no advantages over the Ostheer one besides (curiously) a shorter minimum range for smoke barrages (15 to 25). This is fine, it's a t0 mortar, and that's how that is balanced out. But don't pretend it is statistically better than the Ostheer mortar in any way when it is absolutely not.

I keep seeing this brought up but the faster teardown/setup myth is a holdover of when it used to be a supermobile orbital strike mortar, and those days are long gone. (and the old 60mm mortar currently in the attribute editor files, which I assume was the old mortar, has the exact same teardown as the ostheer mortar has currently)
3 Sep 2019, 00:52 AM
#587
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8727 | Subs: 1



Stop propagating this falsehood. The USF mortar currently has a longer setup and teardown time compared to the ostheer mortar (2.0 to 1.9) You also leave out the worse scatter and mid distance aoe besides the near distance one (1.5 to 2, 0.75 to 1).

Essentially, the USF mortar has no advantages over the Ostheer one besides (curiously) a shorter minimum range for smoke barrages (15 to 25). This is fine, it's a t0 mortar, and that's how that is balanced out. But don't pretend it is statistically better than the Ostheer mortar in any way when it is absolutely not.

I keep seeing this brought up but the faster teardown/setup myth is a holdover of when it used to be a supermobile orbital strike mortar, and those days are long gone. (and the old 60mm mortar currently in the attribute editor files, which I assume was the old mortar, has the exact same teardown as the ostheer mortar has currently)


MARCH 28th UPDATE
81mm Mortar




Those are the basic mortar changes (there are few I skipped)
Update: 17th of May 2018

MORTAR CHANGES

3 Sep 2019, 00:58 AM
#588
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450



Stop propagating this falsehood. The USF mortar currently has a longer setup and teardown time compared to the ostheer mortar (2.0 to 1.9) You also leave out the worse scatter and mid distance aoe besides the near distance one (1.5 to 2, 0.75 to 1).

Essentially, the USF mortar has no advantages over the Ostheer one besides (curiously) a shorter minimum range for smoke barrages (15 to 25). This is fine, it's a t0 mortar, and that's how that is balanced out. But don't pretend it is statistically better than the Ostheer mortar in any way when it is absolutely not.

I keep seeing this brought up but the faster teardown/setup myth is a holdover of when it used to be a supermobile orbital strike mortar, and those days are long gone. (and the old 60mm mortar currently in the attribute editor files, which I assume was the old mortar, has the exact same teardown as the ostheer mortar has currently)


I would not trust most places to find stats. Btw you got Vippered, jk :D. Anyway, all the good usf players know the mortar is a fuking trap. 1 may be used to clear a small garrison, but that is about it. You are far better off stalling for the mortar halftrack or pak Howie. Next patch, you will be better off using Soviets. Punish the silly spammers with a couple of snipers or clown cars.
3 Sep 2019, 03:04 AM
#589
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 766



I would not trust most places to find stats. Btw you got Vippered, jk :D. Anyway, all the good usf players know the mortar is a fuking trap. 1 may be used to clear a small garrison, but that is about it. You are far better off stalling for the mortar halftrack or pak Howie. Next patch, you will be better off using Soviets. Punish the silly spammers with a couple of snipers or clown cars.


Mortar is sadly basically required in 2v2s and on some 1v1 maps with great MG garrison positions. It's that or tech for nades early, and that's not really a realistic option in the early game.

The Mortar HT is way better but conversely is never seen in 1v1 because it's fuel that isn't going towards rushing tanks onto the field lol

I really don't know what people see in the Pack howitzer. Even before this scatter nerf I basically only ever used it or saw it used versus the OKW trucks, or on really small 1v1 maps where it could deny a VP without too much danger to itself. The projectile is ungodly slow and it can't provide smoke like the mortar can (WP requires vet, munitions, and is far worse for concealment purposes). I understand the meta may have been different in team games, but I never played those. I have no idea how the update is going to affect its performance there, but in 1v1 it seems an even more unreliable option to take now.

I wish we could just bite the bullet and - if we are going to consider this unit OP for it's autoattack - rework this unit completely so it is a barrage-only unit with a much shorter barrage recharge time (maybe 30s?), much faster projectiles, and maybe some more shells per barrage. That or a long-recharge high damage barrage to make it the rocket artillery analogue for USF.

As it is I have a sinking suspicion the nerf to AA scatter isn't going to stop the complaints about this unit, and so the trend, for now, is turning this thing slowly and slowly more into an extremely expensive and basically ineffective mortar - to complement the cheap and ineffective t0 mortar, though at least that can provide free smoke.
3 Sep 2019, 03:33 AM
#590
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343



I would not trust most places to find stats. Btw you got Vippered, jk :D. Anyway, all the good usf players know the mortar is a fuking trap. 1 may be used to clear a small garrison, but that is about it. You are far better off stalling for the mortar halftrack or pak Howie. Next patch, you will be better off using Soviets. Punish the silly spammers with a couple of snipers or clown cars.
jove uses it and gets it to vet 3 well enough tho
3 Sep 2019, 15:31 PM
#591
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450



Mortar is sadly basically required in 2v2s and on some 1v1 maps with great MG garrison positions. It's that or tech for nades early, and that's not really a realistic option in the early game.

The Mortar HT is way better but conversely is never seen in 1v1 because it's fuel that isn't going towards rushing tanks onto the field lol

I really don't know what people see in the Pack howitzer. Even before this scatter nerf I basically only ever used it or saw it used versus the OKW trucks, or on really small 1v1 maps where it could deny a VP without too much danger to itself. The projectile is ungodly slow and it can't provide smoke like the mortar can (WP requires vet, munitions, and is far worse for concealment purposes). I understand the meta may have been different in team games, but I never played those. I have no idea how the update is going to affect its performance there, but in 1v1 it seems an even more unreliable option to take now.

I wish we could just bite the bullet and - if we are going to consider this unit OP for it's autoattack - rework this unit completely so it is a barrage-only unit with a much shorter barrage recharge time (maybe 30s?), much faster projectiles, and maybe some more shells per barrage. That or a long-recharge high damage barrage to make it the rocket artillery analogue for USF.

As it is I have a sinking suspicion the nerf to AA scatter isn't going to stop the complaints about this unit, and so the trend, for now, is turning this thing slowly and slowly more into an extremely expensive and basically ineffective mortar - to complement the cheap and ineffective t0 mortar, though at least that can provide free smoke.


Reworking units is what they should have done. Teching grenades or weapon upgrades early will decrease the squads you can field. It is worth it if you get a wipe or steal an mg, but you will be at risk of being overrun. The best strategy is to double or triple team the enemy and go back to your side once you have 2 cps or resources to unlock a pak howitzer. 1 mg is easy to deal with as usf, but multiple mgs is a pain in the ass.
3 Sep 2019, 23:09 PM
#592
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 134 | Subs: 2

I just had a 1v1 in with the preview mod on. There was a bug where the JagdTiger for Breakthrough doctrine didn't show in the commander ability bar or in the FLAK HQ. Long story short there was no way for me to get it and it was like it didn't exist.

I won the 1v1 btw :p
10 Sep 2019, 18:47 PM
#593
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5066 | Subs: 19

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