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September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

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14 Aug 2019, 18:00 PM
#1
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2057 | Subs: 3

September Balance Patch preview mod is out!
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/285839#Comment_285839

Mod on Steam:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1834662479


Patchnotes:

Game wide changes:


OKW

Please post and discuss OKW-specific feedback here.

UKF

Please post and discuss UKF-specific feedback here.

USF

Please post and discuss USF-specific feedback here.

Ostheer

Please post and discuss Ostheer-specific feedback here.

Soviets

Please post and discuss Soviets-specific feedback here.


SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - Version 1.1 Changes



SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - Version 1.2 Changes
August 22nd 2019




SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - Version 1.3 changes


14 Aug 2019, 18:38 PM
#2
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4079

can i ask what the point of this ?
Cost from 200MP/120 to 100/80; unlocks Obersoldaten and the doctrinal Hetzer; Obersoldaten upgrades locked behind Panzer Authorization.

nobody is gonna build it for penals for 80 fuel (mg is still locked in the last tier) as they are literally the only unit in that tier
14 Aug 2019, 18:43 PM
#3
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6456 | Subs: 1

If they are going to lock the JPIV as well behind the other tanks i think they could take a little more risk in making Obers arrive way faster, specially without the LMG.

Quite a lot of changes to grasp but i do indeed like that there are plenty of QOL + things which were long overdue been touched.
14 Aug 2019, 18:46 PM
#4
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4079

If they are going to lock the JPIV as well behind the other tanks i think they could take a little more risk in making Obers arrive way faster, specially without the LMG.

Quite a lot of changes to grasp but i do indeed like that there are plenty of QOL + things which were long overdue been touched.
if at least they came with lmg it would have a point but thye are basically more expsive penal with bit more damage with 95 tech cost to unlock, only them
14 Aug 2019, 19:02 PM
#5
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 954 | Subs: 2

can i ask what the point of this ?
Cost from 200MP/120 to 100/80; unlocks Obersoldaten and the doctrinal Hetzer; Obersoldaten upgrades locked behind Panzer Authorization.

nobody is gonna build it for penals for 80 fuel (mg is still locked in the last tier) as they are literally the only unit in that tier

Sure. So as you alluded to later, obers do have higher damage than penals, so they're definitely competent infantry even without their LMGs. While I obviously wouldn't expect everyone to rush t4 and get obers, I can definitely see some people doing so. Having a competent rifle squad that can do better in a 1v1 against upgunned allied squads helps, and them coming earlier (even if they don't get their LMGs straight away) also at least means they can start vetting up sooner. Basically, it's about opening up more possibilities and smoothing the ober power curve a little.

As for the tier split in general, it serves as a tool to give us finer grain control of unit timings. Currently the first half of the tier only consists of obers and the doctrinal hetzer, but at some points we were considering also including the jpz and doctrinal ostwind in this. In the end, we decided against it (as the jpz could potentially become too much of a comeback vehicle, and the new ostwind is competent and useful even at a medium tank timing), but should feedback push for it, we can always put the jpz and ostwind into this first half.
14 Aug 2019, 19:05 PM
#6
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4079

well, don't u still need tier 1 or 2 as they don't mention it being unlocked, so u can't actually rush them, so u get basically penals when they get tier 4
14 Aug 2019, 19:12 PM
#7
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

Having a competent rifle squad that can do better in a 1v1 against upgunned allied squads helps


Doesnt an un-upgraded Ober loose vs most allied infantry when it would come out, IE vs a squad that has a weapon upgrade and 2-3 stars of veterency?

I mean its very plausible that an ober at that point is facing a vet 3 penal with 6 men and .85 target size which has an overall more base long range DPS than an ober.
14 Aug 2019, 19:14 PM
#8
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2057 | Subs: 3

Doesnt an un-upgraded Ober loose vs most allied infantry when it would come out, IE vs a squad that has a weapon upgrade and 2-3 stars of veterency?

I mean its very plausible that an ober at that point is facing a vet 3 penal with 6 men and .85 target size which has an overall more base long range DPS than an ober.


That's what we're going to need test games and feedback for. We could still do lots of things with the tech split, i.e. remove Hetzer and lower the cost of the first half, or allow Obers upgrades, or allow Ostwind/Jagdpanzer IV, but we need to see the new system and its timings in action first.
14 Aug 2019, 19:15 PM
#9
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 954 | Subs: 2

So a few notes:

OKW early manpower/economy changes were relatively conservative since early strength is one of OKW's critical strong points. We are very much looking to tune these numbers if needed.

The raketen got a fair amount of discussion. Some members went either way on retreat vs no retreat. We ended up deciding on no retreat so that we can see how it pans out. Another thing, I recall Mirage was looking into seeing if the spacing on the raketen could be improved any, but I don't recall what came of that.

I feel like the falls changes could use a little more explanation. Currently, falls are an expensive elite unit that come at a time where you really just want AT to deal with allied light vehicles. They're often simply not what you need (they're more anti infantry) and too expensive to splash into your build. They're fairly strong even for this timing, but they almost feel obsolete when obers hit the field. We by all means could have pushed them into the full on infiltration squad role (see commandos and stormtroopers), but I like how unique the glassiness and damage profile was. And as I said, I do personally like their glassy nature (a low model count is natural as theyre in the role of an elite squad, but even against small arms they also just have a relatively low durability), but the lack of DPS concentration meant that they ended up losing DPS too quickly to even feel like a real damage dealer - they felt like a "glass cannon"...except without the cannon part. The changes aim to bring them to a timing and cost where they fit more comfortably. The 2:2 (kar:fg42) armament is meant to retrofit them to their earlier timing and lower cost, while also providing some DPS concentration so that they can still be glassy but not suffer majorly in DPS becuase of it. The fg42 buffs prevent the 2:2 from hitting their performance too much, feeds into the DPS concentration, and also means that when they get the full fg42s they can feel competitive with obers. The main things here are DPS concentration, timing/ease of use, and adjusting their power curve.

I'm personally a little iffy on the panzergrenadier g43 buffs and on the paratrooper RA buff. I like paras' identity as a glassy (per model) damage dealing squad and feel like the trade off is more or less balanced. Still, some users seemed to favor the idea, as did members of the team.
14 Aug 2019, 19:16 PM
#10
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1

Quite a lot of changes to grasp but i do indeed like that there are plenty of QOL + things which were long overdue been touched.

The Medics changes make me cry happy tears
14 Aug 2019, 19:17 PM
#11
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 954 | Subs: 2

well, don't u still need tier 1 or 2 as they don't mention it being unlocked, so u can't actually rush them, so u get basically penals when they get tier 4

It's about 135 fuel in tech (battlegroup + t4, which is the intended build for utilizing obers in this fashion). That's squarely before soviet tier 4. But overall, you're right, you can't "rush" obers, just like you can't "rush" a KT or "rush" and ez8. I was using the word liberally to refer to a build that prioritizes getting obers out as soon as possible.
14 Aug 2019, 19:18 PM
#12
avatar of Maret

Posts: 610

Why don't replace medics on healing aura?
14 Aug 2019, 19:20 PM
#13
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 817

Great direction on Heavies Damage, hopefully they will not be rng wipe machine, Question do tiger changes apply to Tiger ace as well? Additionally, Ost require BP3 but OKW cannot callin heavies if the schwerer is destroyed, this seems inconsistent, unless you want to really punish OKW players for losing tech which is a valid train of thought.

OKW is getting I think some good changes on their infantry, volks, the officer and Falls. Raketen change is interesting I think we need to see how this one works.

Sturmpioneers- If your going to adjust them, Take a look at The shrek and Minesweeper both being available? Much like RE's and Royal engineers can get both. Linked discussion: https://www.coh2.org/topic/95256/70-ammo-for-just-1-panzerschreck-still-why

USF seems to have fewer changes than most but I think the complaints about usf are mostly about infantry balance, which is always very hard to adjust. Not surprising they wouldn't adjust them at the same time as a major OKW change.

I'm Excited to live in a world without no tech supertanks! :romeoHype:
14 Aug 2019, 19:21 PM
#14
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4079



That's what we're going to need test games and feedback for. We could still do lots of things with the tech split, i.e. remove Hetzer and lower the cost of the first half, or allow Obers upgrades, or allow Ostwind/Jagdpanzer IV, but we need to see the new system and its timings in action first.
try a tech cost of 60 fuel that u can actually build without the need of other truck, with just obers and JP4
14 Aug 2019, 19:21 PM
#15
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 954 | Subs: 2


Sturmpioneers- If your going to adjust them, Take a look at The shrek and Minesweeper both being available? Much like RE's and Royal engineers can get both. Linked discussion: https://www.coh2.org/topic/95256/70-ammo-for-just-1-panzerschreck-still-why

It was discussed and decided against for the time being.
14 Aug 2019, 19:22 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4079

what about making sturm more like an egenier squad an letting them specialize in anti tank, anti garrison and stg or mine sweeper and repairs
14 Aug 2019, 19:24 PM
#17
avatar of Maret

Posts: 610

I remember some time ago Stormless(?) show minimalistic UI for CoH2. It could be implemented with patch?
14 Aug 2019, 19:29 PM
#18
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 817


It was discussed and decided against for the time being.


well then what can you do :luvCarrot:
At least they can finally use their grenade. Fuerturm sturms are probably much better due to this and the other doctrine buffs
14 Aug 2019, 19:29 PM
#19
avatar of Maret

Posts: 610

Few words about conscripts - replace flare mines on something useful. Make passive vet1 ability that increase speed of building sandbags. Cons designed to work from cover, but have mines like engeeners.
14 Aug 2019, 19:29 PM
#20
avatar of someonewithideas

Posts: 27

All in all, really good patch.

Just wish they would tie rifleman snares to tech and get them a small vet one accuracy bonus.
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