Login

russian armor

The Overwatch Problem

PAGES (11)down
13 Jan 2019, 11:14 AM
#21
avatar of Hater

Posts: 493

What is this thread? People complain that some commander has too many useful abilities. LMAO :lolol:
13 Jan 2019, 11:14 AM
#22
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Spoken like a true ridiculously-biased, Soviet-only fanboi, who thinks "Soviet demos were okay".


And he also thinks Penals should still win versus JLI when they charge them head-on from max range with no cover and that JLI are "just as effective as LMG Obersoldaten for 250MP" when they are clearly not.

Or that having Goliaths, For the Fatherland and Sector Assault all in one commander is super powerful when in reality you can only ever use one of the three consistantly because of obvious high munitions costs and lack of caches for OKW.
13 Jan 2019, 11:21 AM
#23
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



And he also thinks Penals should still win versus JLI when they charge them head-on from max range with no cover and that JLI are "just as effective as LMG Obersoldaten for 250MP" when they are clearly not.

Or that having Goliaths, For the Fatherland and Sector Assault all in one commander is super powerful when in reality you can only use one of the three consistantly because of obvious munitions costs.


Once you get 3 or above JLI squads, they become way more cost effective than anything in the game, including Obers. Penals are dedicated AI unit, they should win against anything but elite AI infantry, which JLI are not, they are sniper unit who can magically take down AI specialists head on.

Can Pathfinders or EFA snipers do that? No, and thats the point if you still failed to get it.
13 Jan 2019, 11:41 AM
#24
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2019, 11:21 AMKirrik
Once you get 3 or above JLI squads, they become way more cost effective than anything in the game, including Obers. Penals are dedicated AI unit, they should win against anything but elite AI infantry, which JLI are not, they are sniper unit who can magically take down AI specialists head on.


More cost effective maybe, that's not the point. Gbem claims JLI are as good 1:1 as LMG Obers when in fact they are at about 80% effective at mid-long range. Which means JLI just need a slight increase in cost to match their efficiency.

Penals being dedicated AI unit should not mean they should just 1v1 any other squad in the game, that's just stupid. They should win under the right circumstances. Which are not: charging into a JLI squad across open ground from max range. Penals win against JLI below range 10 and they should use shot blockers or distractions to approach without getting picked off by the long range squad.
13 Jan 2019, 12:18 PM
#25
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The problem with JLI is less raw damage and more that they can negate enemy cover at CP1 while benefiting from it themselves.

They stomp everything so hard in cover fights that your only option is to blob them to death, which is not the sort of playstyle patches are meant to encourage.

For their high-power crit sniper design to work, they need to be impractical as a mainline infantry unit, however that's achieved.
13 Jan 2019, 13:22 PM
#26
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979




Spoken like a true ridiculously-biased, Soviet-only fanboi, who thinks "Soviet demos were okay". Instead of stopping blobs the old demos forced people to blob your cutoff 24/7, because all your infantry needed to stick close to your sweeper squad, or be instant-wiped. Trying to cap anywhere on the map was auto-lose since you can't have 3 or 4 sweeper squads running around - even if Axis factions had a 170mp 30muni sweeper squad the pop cap would be unsustainable. Oh and the best part was that each of those sweeper squads needed to be microed properly, or they themselves would get instant-wiped. Oh, and vehicles also took massive damage from demos, with many LVs being insta-gibbed.

1) You could only capture territory with engineer squads equipped with sweepers
2) You needed to manually watch over and micro your engineer each time you cap a territory
3) Your opponent could shift-click cap the whole map with 170mp units

Everyone in Top 50 and Top 100 was spamming demos because they were the current-patch equivalent JLI (which you spend all your time creating threads and raging about). The fact that you're so wilfully ignorant of how completely OP the old demos were only goes to once again prove your over-the-top bias.






nah... it was my way of getting the argument to work... i do agree that the demo was a bit over the top

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2019, 04:23 AMgbem


Well the problem was it was essentially a 90 muni free wipe... kinda a bit too powerful for 90 muni...

Same with sector assault... now its a 250 muni free wipe that suppresses... doesnt need to be planted and gives free recon...


i dont want the old demo back.... but i honestly think the new demo at the very least has to be useful... im thinking of making it a 10 muni sapper demo that doesnt kill infantry but can be used to destroy structures bridges buildings etc...
13 Jan 2019, 13:24 PM
#27
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



More cost effective maybe, that's not the point. Gbem claims JLI are as good 1:1 as LMG Obers when in fact they are at about 80% effective at mid-long range. Which means JLI just need a slight increase in cost to match their efficiency.

Penals being dedicated AI unit should not mean they should just 1v1 any other squad in the game, that's just stupid. They should win under the right circumstances. Which are not: charging into a JLI squad across open ground from max range. Penals win against JLI below range 10 and they should use shot blockers or distractions to approach without getting picked off by the long range squad.


yes my 250mp 45 muni squad with recon infiltration stealth boobytraps sprint self healing and salvage should beat a 300mp dedicated AI squad....

now where are you not biased here again?


also mr "shot blockers" that tactic doesnt work if you have at least one volk with STG per JLI... if volks lose the stg then fine but going into cqc vs okw is a good way to die...
13 Jan 2019, 13:27 PM
#28
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Jesus man, you are so missing the point it's not even funny anymore.

I suppose you'd also expect SMG Paratroopers to charge LMG Obersoldaten across negative cover and win because Paras are "supposed to be better AI"? The game has relative positioning and unit strengths and weaknesses for a purpose.

13 Jan 2019, 13:28 PM
#29
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

1. its not even negative cover...

2. smg paras crush volk + stg at cqc... penals dont...

3. obers dont get recon infiltration and stealth...


look if thats the case then give penals a 6x smg upgrade then this whole problem will be fixed... its of course creating another OP unit to counter an OP unit... hence why JLI should be nerfed appropriately
13 Jan 2019, 16:06 PM
#30
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Jesus man, you are so missing the point it's not even funny anymore.

I suppose you'd also expect SMG Paratroopers to charge LMG Obersoldaten across negative cover and win because Paras are "supposed to be better AI"? The game has relative positioning and unit strengths and weaknesses for a purpose.



JLI are supposed to be a support troop. I think what they are getting at is if the very best troops the Soviet can field (by that I mean best o the move, good at range, good up close) can't force a cheaper and utility packed unit off what's the point? JLI SHOULD be threatened by being charged. They act as a sniper type unit and no other sniper type unit can out fight enemy elite troops. Not proper snipers and not pathfinders.
They cost the same as volks, who are overperforming for cost and manage to make volks look bad for the same price... If JLI had a snare you would never see volks again.
13 Jan 2019, 16:13 PM
#31
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2257 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2019, 08:52 AMBaba


last time ive seen a mortar bit barraging across the map was.. wait i havent.
The mortar pit is fine. i mean it makes up for brits inability of indirekt firing outside from doctrines and adds much needed utility with smoke.

the bofors on the other hand.. GOD DAMNIT RELIC


no, you are wrong

since the nerf you re just more lucky to get it early in more cases than before.

but if you get a competent cheese player who abuses the fortify stuff and autorepair stuff and secures flanks properly, it regularly gets 30-40 kills, depending on map. 30-40 kills you HAVEN'T DONE A GARDENING CLICK FOR. and nobody uses smoke with it
13 Jan 2019, 16:19 PM
#32
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



no, you are wrong

since the nerf you re just more lucky to get it early in more cases than before.

but if you get a competent cheese player who abuses the fortify stuff and autorepair stuff and secures flanks properly, it regularly gets 30-40 kills, depending on map. 30-40 kills you HAVEN'T DONE A GARDENING CLICK FOR. and nobody uses smoke with it

That's what?
800+ menpower just sitting there on a mortar?
How is that brit securing flanks when you have 3 to 5 more units due to axis inf being both, much cheaper and you having said 800+ mp in mobile force.

Are you talking about 3v3 and 4v4?
Because most certainly not 1v1 or 2v2.
13 Jan 2019, 16:21 PM
#33
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The insta-repair assembly from Advanced Emplacements needs to go. Emplacements are fine outside of that.
13 Jan 2019, 17:59 PM
#34
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



then be consistent and remove the gardening mortar pit as well

Goddamn yes please. Then give brits a normal mortar and everyone is happy.

Also, lefh does not equal mortar pit. One gets countered by 2 mortars or an infantry push and the other is pretty much invincible if it's near your base, especially with a free schwerer protecting it.
13 Jan 2019, 21:56 PM
#35
avatar of Premium_Hacker

Posts: 24

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2019, 04:25 AMgbem


King tiger in the profile pic?... check... first post?... check... no playercard visible? Check... claims allies OP? Check

Probability of wehraboo identification 80%

>calls someone wheraboo cause they like German tanks
>first post is not relevant
>says I have no playercard, yet he doesn't have one either
>hypocrite
>Bet he thinks JLI are op
>Probability of allied fanboy identification 100%
> :)
13 Jan 2019, 22:02 PM
#36
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

This commander frustrated me so much that I uninstalled this game again :-(

Game feels completely stale at the moment on "middle" ranks (around 200 - 500). Each of my last 20 games was against OKW (I think 1 Wehr was part, but still) and everyone of them (besides a level > 1000 dude) used Overwatch.
14 Jan 2019, 00:20 AM
#37
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

This commander frustrated me so much that I uninstalled this game again :-(

Game feels completely stale at the moment on "middle" ranks (around 200 - 500). Each of my last 20 games was against OKW (I think 1 Wehr was part, but still) and everyone of them (besides a level > 1000 dude) used Overwatch.


Can´t really blame them. People use whatever is OP in order to win because winning is fun. And it´s not just Jäger Light abuse, it´s also Shock grenade spam, Ass Engie + Pathfinder spam etc. It´s just that Jäger Lights are a fair bit better than everything else. Thank god it´s only a matter of time until this gets fixed.
14 Jan 2019, 01:09 AM
#38
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979


>calls someone wheraboo cause they like German tanks
>first post is not relevant
>says I have no playercard, yet he doesn't have one either
>hypocrite
>Bet he thinks JLI are op
>Probability of allied fanboy identification 100%
> :)


I do have a playercard you wehraboo check below the name...

JLI are OP... literally everyone else but you knows this

Claims allies OP but axis quite literally has a higher gcs wr than allies (except sov)
14 Jan 2019, 01:13 AM
#39
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Can´t really blame them. People use whatever is OP in order to win because winning is fun. And it´s not just Jäger Light abuse, it´s also Shock grenade spam, Ass Engie + Pathfinder spam etc. It´s just that Jäger Lights are a fair bit better than everything else. Thank god it´s only a matter of time until this gets fixed.


And cheaper than everything else. That's the thing. They could be this good if they were not the same price as a volks squad with a cheaper upgrade... Shock nade spam is muni heavy on an expensive squad, ass engies are strong but can be zoned. JLI can be everywhere and be snowballing.

And can building spawn for 250MP. Sure partisans can building spawn for cheap, but at least they are close range and can't stand in a fight...
14 Jan 2019, 02:26 AM
#40
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

Can you guys wait until the new nerfed JLI come out before arguing about them again in every thread?


jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2019, 01:09 AMgbem


I do have a playercard you wehraboo check below the name...

You don't.
PAGES (11)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

387 users are online: 387 guests
17 posts in the last 24h
45 posts in the last week
99 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44645
Welcome our newest member, otorusqtwk
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM