Guards Mosins have the issue of stacking much better on Conscripts as they deal 16 damage I believe. Combined with their accuracy modifiers they would be able to burst models too quickly. You never notice this on Guards because many cases they only have 2 Mosins.
Same changes that were applied to con mosins could be done to guard mosins, as long as DPS curve remains same. |
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I'm looking at this buff and thinking: isnt giving conscripts guard mosins and a bit of RA buff/reinforecement decrease is cleaner way of buffing them compared to 7th man, cover modifier and shared exp?
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Why not just give them Guard's mosins? This is basically what they get when they're in cover
Actually it's even better than Guard mosins... any chance they simply get G.mosins instead of this buff? |
Cons starting performance is fine if not for ubervolks designed to hold their own against units 30mp more expensive so an svt will throw off gren balance slightly. Also would this weapon persist so it's always equipped? Would Tha increase the chance of dropping their 1 weapon slot weapon? What about with ppshs? Ptrs'?
Cons are supposed to be about manpower effeciency, so I like the cover bonus idea but Tying it to vet leaves the same problem we have now-if they are wiped they are fucked.
I think cons need whatever upgrades they have tied by tier not vet. They can be trash tier but raising the bar slightly each tier, even through fuel upgrades (like t0 has now) would be preferable to tied to vet.
To reiterate: cons only stop being worth it mid and late game, an early game svt isn't going to fix those problems nor is a late game only upgrade. The 7th man is better for cons than an early game svt as it let's them at least merge and crew weapons without risk of a wipe.
Cons are manpower ineffecient compared *any* unit soviets have, including even maxim. If you factor cost of upgrades getting 4 cons squads costs you pretty much same as getting 4 penals. Their scaling issues start early-midgame when Volks get stg and grens get lmgs, they just get unbearable late game when only use for cons becomes crewing weapons and capping. |
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Cover bonuses for squad that does not have LMG are utterly pointless, Osttruppen and IS have LMGs, their DPS peaks at long ranges because of it. Conscripts dont have LMG, their damage best up close and they have sprint to utilize it, unless they are getting a LMG anything that makes them immobile like Osttruppen would be a miserable fail as they dont have DPS for long-range engagements |
Imo this thread shows why the Wehrmacht is in such dire straits. Instead of fixing the issues with OKW, the other factions are getting buffed to match OKW, with Wehrmacht being left in a ditch.
And how would you fix OKW? Remove stg and flamenade from Volks? Rifles and IS will just shit all over them without stgs. Conscripts are the problem here, despite costing same as volks and even more considering upgrades volks better than cons in every imaginable way once midgame rolls in. SVT upgrade scales cons to volks levels, but that is somehow unacceptable because... "muh penals" Penals themseles are a crutch unit replacing an actual mainline infantry which soviets lack, faction would be unusable without them and thats whats wrong with sov. |
actually against vetted blobs and arty it improves their chance of getting out alive...thats exactly how extra models function....thats the point...
but they are still not intended to be a combat unit, it will help them fill a support role very well
the unfortunate thing is that the patch makers seem to be pushing the game towards blobs by removing any tool that might possibly punish one, which is why they will still fall. you could have 10 model cons and with no way to stop an stg blob from walking up and murdering them it doesnt matter. if the game still catered to the tactical element it would be a fantastic change, but the game is about powerful blobs now and the soviet lack any tools to do anything about those.
Whats the point of surviving and saving a squad that will always lose engaments in late game anyway, genius? You will lose VP's and you bleed insane amount of manpower which could be spent on squads capable of actually winning engaments and dealing damage back. What does additional man change? Conscripts arent grenadiers, they were never weak against artillery in first place, adding a man just increases bleed and MP reinforcement decrease offsets it and as result you just have 7 man conscripts... which changes nothing as they still bleed you and you still lose engagements |
Are people really complaining for a buff to cons ?
It does not make Cons viable against OKW and it does not make them viable midgame when all infantry has their weapon upgrades. What does adding one model to conscripts accomplish in endgame against vetted blobs or artillery? Nothing |
On Conscripts versus Grenadiers in squad sizes, Grenadiers are also 30 per model while 7 men are 17 per model. 5 men Grens, if they had 0 boosts bleed to death.
Theoretically, if we put in a cover bonus, would people prefer offence over defense? And what bonus as Conscripts already get quite a bit of accuracy with veterancy.
7 man conscripts also bleed to death, same way as 6 man cons or 5 man grens. Everything without good weapons does nothing but bleed in late game. Additional model is pointless unless you're going to give squad same type of bonuses 5-man grens get. |
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Instead of evaporating from artillery they instead slowly bleed you to death as they cant win any engaments against vetted infantry with weapons, conscript style.
Perfect example as to why Conscript buff wont work, it works on same principle as 5 man grens. |
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