Login

russian armor

Why does Overwatch(commander) exist?

11 Nov 2022, 20:55 PM
#21
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3506 | Subs: 1



Overwatch doc is kinda stupid, but that's not rly a bad thing imo because it's the last reason why we don't see omega-boring Elite Armor doc every single match, so at least it brings a bit of variety.


I thought it was the other way around.


And the door swings both ways for this "OP doc" argument. USF has airborne, Soviets have Guard Motor & Mechanized Support, Brits have Royal Engineers & Commandos, Wehrmacht has Jaeger Armor & Mechanized etc etc



Lol Airborn OP. Or maybe but to proof your statement you'll have to climb the 2vs2 ladder random til top100 without using it a single time from a new account.
12 Nov 2022, 00:50 AM
#22
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 197



You only ever seem to complain about how unfair the game is for allies and when you do, you are prone to exaggerating.

The allies(specifically UKF and USF) lack crucial tools(nondoctrinal rocket arty, nondoc stock mobile mortar for the UKF although the MP is in some ways better, both UKF and USF lack heavy TDs despite producing heavy breakthrough vehicles to assault the Siegfried Line, USF has no direct counter snipers and has no sniper of it's own, also gets raped early game by a Kubel etc.

At this point, in the game's history it's less about Axis being OP and more allies just lacking certain tools to stay competitive.This is also from a 3v3 POV, as 1v1 is much more balanced as it's much more risky to use certain units that tip the balance into the Axis' favour such as Ele/Jagd.KT is still viable in 1v1 though and extremely strong due to it's vet abilities/doctrinal upgrades plus the fact that there's just less AT to go around for the KT to be threatened.
12 Nov 2022, 05:56 AM
#23
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1007 | Subs: 1

Overwatch is literally just frustrating because it has LeFH, but you already with current meta aren't suppose to play neither side without anti-arty call-in in teamgames.

Jaegers litteraly do no damage the closer you get to them, which is sometimes the problem for UKF, unless they spam bren mandos, which is also a meta, which hard counters jaegers pretty badly. Not to mention that they are by far the weakest OKW elite inf, since they start kicking ass only around vet 3 and they take shit ton of time to vet up.

Loiter is the strongest one unitility wise, but allies AA is still on top of the Axis one, so you can pretty much make it 200muni waste.

Still, I'd pick playing against Overwatch in teamgames, over Breakthrought, which is by far the worst, because besides having arty, it has everything overwatch has but better.
12 Nov 2022, 07:14 AM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13376 | Subs: 1

...

Loiter is the strongest one unitility wise, but allies AA is still on top of the Axis one, so you can pretty much make it 200muni waste.
...

275 mu
12 Nov 2022, 20:08 PM
#25
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 898

Yes Overwatch is OP. But I have to agree with aerafield on a lot of his points.

Overwatch basically exists because your alternative vs current UKF is to get walked off the map or play obnoxiously. You cannot even rely upon MG34 any more to deal with the IS blob, because they get 42 sight range pyrotechnics (52 sight in cover at vet I, which means anywhere of relevance).

Camping behind sandbags can buy you time, but ever since the sandbag model size change (1->20), they're easily shot out. So you must either commit to harder camping or play around the blob, trying to draw the game out.

Double LeIG is heralded as a toxic counter, but you are using two light arty instead of two squads. Expect to get brenned off the map or just 5-man IS blob right-clicked through your army. Or worse, commandos wiping your men and support teams because your inf presence is weak and SPs can't be everywhere "just in case of mandos".

I would theorise that if Overwatch were to disappear, Elite Armored would not be able to replace it. Any decent UKF can handle a 221 without too much trouble, infantry behind cover will shred it quickly and maybe a hardcounter in the form of an AEC. Instead, more fusiliers or ppl switching to OST for the 2 MG42, 2 pio braindead build that murders most UKF players out the door. Or yes, the much feared OST Sniper.
12 Nov 2022, 21:33 PM
#26
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

Yes Overwatch is OP. But I have to agree with aerafield on a lot of his points.

Overwatch basically exists because your alternative vs current UKF is to get walked off the map or play obnoxiously. You cannot even rely upon MG34 any more to deal with the IS blob, because they get 42 sight range pyrotechnics (52 sight in cover at vet I, which means anywhere of relevance).

Yeah pretty much this. You can say something similar about most of the commanders that have dominated coh2 for any faction. Outside of the DLC ones that were just glaringly OP upon addition, most of the "OP" commanders are just poorly designed band-aids for a factions weakness

In this case it's OKW vs brits
13 Nov 2022, 16:05 PM
#27
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 219

airborne and overwatch both need tuning.
i feel overwatch has better synergy with stock OKW units, compared to airborne/USF.
JLI+Obers is very comparable to paths/paras. But one needs to sink in huge amounts of muni and manpower in airborne to make it work proper, while overwatch pretty much has what it needs from the start.
perhaps JLI needs an upgrade barrier,like 60 muni for sniping and cloak, to even out the spam.
-goliaths are only an issue when smoked in towards an emplacement.
-For the fatherland is a bonus, but not anything great.
-105 lefh is nice
-sector assault feels strong for sure, is it stronger than its peers? or is it just a copy when it comes to DMG? as allied tanks have less HP?

nerf JLI/paths by max 1-2 units on field, and give upgrade barrier to JLI.
im on the fence regarding sector assault, some commanders always end up on bottom/top no matter what balance department does.
13 Nov 2022, 17:28 PM
#28
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 591

airborne and overwatch both need tuning.
i feel overwatch has better synergy with stock OKW units, compared to airborne/USF.
JLI+Obers is very comparable to paths/paras. But one needs to sink in huge amounts of muni and manpower in airborne to make it work proper, while overwatch pretty much has what it needs from the start.
perhaps JLI needs an upgrade barrier,like 60 muni for sniping and cloak, to even out the spam.
-goliaths are only an issue when smoked in towards an emplacement.
-For the fatherland is a bonus, but not anything great.
-105 lefh is nice
-sector assault feels strong for sure, is it stronger than its peers? or is it just a copy when it comes to DMG? as allied tanks have less HP?

nerf JLI/paths by max 1-2 units on field, and give upgrade barrier to JLI.
im on the fence regarding sector assault, some commanders always end up on bottom/top no matter what balance department does.


I would hope Overwatch has better synergy, 2 of Airbornes abilities are literally access to stock units while everything in Overwatch is a bonus. How much of a bonus depends on game mode and play style.

JLI already have the sniper gated behind muni and tech. Paths would probably need a buff to JLI performance if they are locked to one squad.

According to COH2 ability guide For the Fatherland gives -35% received accuracy. That is amazing, give that to USF/SOVIETS and blobs of death would ensue. For the fatherland doesn't feel as strong as it should since JLI/Obers have the same weakness of small squad size vs late game explosives so you might as well save the muni for Sector Assault.

I am not sure how Sector Assault compares to UKF planes but its strength comes from the overall situation caused by the rest of the commander. Someone correct me if I am wrong but no other faction gets elite inf/howitzer/loiter/HT as part of a line up in a match.

JLI have great camo so they can be used to spot for the planes. Howitzers can punish blobs, emplacements, base sector and the Loiter can be used defensively if you are caught out of position or offensively to break enemy lines. Stock KT along with spearhead mode is probably the strongest heavy tank in the game.
15 Nov 2022, 00:31 AM
#29
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

The damage threshold for JLI sniping should be on par with pathfinders. Also, why they get the sprint? I think sector assault should have less area denial, but not much. on 1v1 without any AA, it is painful.
15 Nov 2022, 15:14 PM
#30
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1059

Yeah Overwatch is a tiring and obnoxious commander to play against.

Although that also applies to every OKW commander minus scavenge and Special Operations.

Looking at the abilities they get gives off a Beta vibe, needs one more balance pass before release.

15 Nov 2022, 16:54 PM
#31
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4145 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2022, 15:14 PMGrim
Yeah Overwatch is a tiring and obnoxious commander to play against.

Although that also applies to every OKW commander minus scavenge and Special Operations.

Looking at the abilities they get gives off a Beta vibe, needs one more balance pass before release.



+1 OKW commanders are all obnoxious except for the "bad ones". One could argue EFA would be like that as well if they didn't have 2.5x the commanders just swapping out 1 ability.
16 Nov 2022, 21:15 PM
#32
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 767

Emplacement are lame, so is the Overwatch doctrine😁😁
To be completely serious, the doctrine is too much. Probably if not for loiters, it would have been fine
Elite armor is still better though, even if you never touch the stinkiest tiger in the game.
17 Nov 2022, 15:36 PM
#33
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 591

The damage threshold for JLI sniping should be on par with pathfinders. Also, why they get the sprint? I think sector assault should have less area denial, but not much. on 1v1 without any AA, it is painful.


Their damage threshold isn’t the only difference. JLI also get acc bonus vs cover and amazing acc from 25-35. Both units get maximum 40 range but JLI sniper can’t miss a shot against Soviet units without some type of ability or Guards rifle are behind green cover so it drops to about 94% chance. The only Allied Infantry that has less than 90% chance out of cover to get hit is rangers. Every other short range squad going to at minimum lose 1 model on approach if it has taken any damage and sprint can be used to reposition. The entire design makes no sense.
17 Nov 2022, 16:16 PM
#34
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2478 | Subs: 21

Overwatch has goaliths though
But those aren't abused as much as skill planes these days :foreveralone:
17 Nov 2022, 20:06 PM
#35
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 866



Their damage threshold isn’t the only difference. JLI also get acc bonus vs cover and amazing acc from 25-35. Both units get maximum 40 range but JLI sniper can’t miss a shot against Soviet units without some type of ability or Guards rifle are behind green cover so it drops to about 94% chance. The only Allied Infantry that has less than 90% chance out of cover to get hit is rangers. Every other short range squad going to at minimum lose 1 model on approach if it has taken any damage and sprint can be used to reposition. The entire design makes no sense.


Hold on just a moment. Now you're talking just about the scoped G43 right? That plus the 60% HP crits give me an undersranding of why they pay 60 muni for that sniper XD.

Also, total sidenote but on the topic of OKW and weapon upgrades... Obersoldaten used to spawn in with their LMG34 for 400 manpower. Apparently that was OP so now they have to pay for it. Don't CoH3 Stoßtruppen also spawn with an LMG? If so, place bets on how long that will last for.
17 Nov 2022, 22:18 PM
#36
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543



Hold on just a moment. Now you're talking just about the scoped G43 right? That plus the 60% HP crits give me an undersranding of why they pay 60 muni for that sniper XD.

Also, total sidenote but on the topic of OKW and weapon upgrades... Obersoldaten used to spawn in with their LMG34 for 400 manpower. Apparently that was OP so now they have to pay for it. Don't CoH3 Stoßtruppen also spawn with an LMG? If so, place bets on how long that will last for.


For that kind of power, 60muni is an easy pay. There should always be a payoff - maybe reduce the rate of fire, lose sprint, may not plant bombs anymore are a few ideas.
17 Nov 2022, 23:08 PM
#37
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 591



Hold on just a moment. Now you're talking just about the scoped G43 right? That plus the 60% HP crits give me an undersranding of why they pay 60 muni for that sniper XD.

Also, total sidenote but on the topic of OKW and weapon upgrades... Obersoldaten used to spawn in with their LMG34 for 400 manpower. Apparently that was OP so now they have to pay for it. Don't CoH3 Stoßtruppen also spawn with an LMG? If so, place bets on how long that will last for.


G43 model only, and the threshold is 75% I believe. It is at least 70% as that is what I used to check to see if shock armor helped at all against sniper crit. Which it did not.
18 Nov 2022, 00:32 AM
#38
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1007 | Subs: 1



For that kind of power, 60muni is an easy pay. There should always be a payoff - maybe reduce the rate of fire, lose sprint, may not plant bombs anymore are a few ideas.


There is already a pay-off. Jaegers, unlike other squads, do less damage to the unit the closer they are to them.
18 Nov 2022, 13:30 PM
#39
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 591



There is already a pay-off. Jaegers, unlike other squads, do less damage to the unit the closer they are to them.


What are you talking about? To my knowledge they use Grenadier Kar, so they have a normal damage profile. Only the single G43 performs as you say and that is only once upgraded. So even without the upgrade they get excellent starting target size at .8, Gren guns, camo, ambush bonus, vision and two free weapon slots which are not used even when upgraded.
18 Nov 2022, 22:45 PM
#40
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1007 | Subs: 1



What are you talking about? To my knowledge they use Grenadier Kar, so they have a normal damage profile. Only the single G43 performs as you say and that is only once upgraded. So even without the upgrade they get excellent starting target size at .8, Gren guns, camo, ambush bonus, vision and two free weapon slots which are not used even when upgraded.


Its not like you want to use stock grenadiers, by the time other elites hit the field. Not to mention that its pointless to use them without G43.

On top of that, grenadiers kars don't have exceptionally good close range damage, and the whole DPS of jaegers comes from sniping models.

Point being, if you want to counter jaegers just close the distance which wont allow them to get easy snipes.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

New Zealand 11

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag shadics ARG.
  • U.S. Forces flag TüMe
  • Ostheer flag The101stAirBorne
  • Ostheer flag Clororaa
uploaded by TüMe

Board Info

251 users are online: 2 members and 249 guests
devlish, Katitof
10 posts in the last 24h
81 posts in the last week
836 posts in the last month
Registered members: 37760
Welcome our newest member, thebookroom
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM